19-05-2005 00:44									#121
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I thought ManU was "about" buying the best players, competitive balance be damned.

Sorta like the NY Yankees.

	19-05-2005 00:56									#122
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Well i dont know the details(being a swans fan), but its got lots of football history(plane crash, historicaly some of the best british players etc). But i know you know this and are just playing at being an 'ignorant millionaire yank'

Not much in the news recently about this - i was expecting riots in Manchester etc.

	19-05-2005 00:57									#123
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All together now!!

"WHO'S THAT BURNING ON THE RUNWAY..."

	19-05-2005 01:00									#124
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Perhaps most Man U fans have decided to give Glazer the benefit of the doubt for now.

	19-05-2005 01:02									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon All together now!! "WHO'S THAT BURNING ON THE RUNWAY..."

	19-05-2005 01:03									#126
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Thats no fun - they were getting all fighty and everything.
If they just lay down now....well its not very 'football' of them, and they would probably loose a few pegs on the 'hardest supporters' hall of football fame.

A sorry state of affairs

	19-05-2005 01:10									#127
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What, you mean football fans might not be the religious zealots willing to become martyrs for football that Locutus makes them out to be? I'm shocked. Shocked, I say.

That said, doesn't the FA cup this weekend offer the refuseniks a chance to make their feelings known?

	19-05-2005 01:17									#128
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Perhaps most Man U fans have decided to give Glazer the benefit of the doubt for now.

Yeah, right. How naive do you have to be to say something like that....

We'll be hearing about this at least until mid-next season. Maybe, juuuuust maybe, if ManU performs really well and starts kicking everybody's butt in the EPL and CL next season, things will blow over and fans will give Glazer the benefit of the doubt. Until then, and if that doesn't happen, ManU fans will be protesting this every chance they get. Just because the haven't burnt down the city yet doesn't mean they're gonna sit this one out. They've announced actions for the FA Cup final and are organising for that.

I think the FA Cup final will give us an indication of how badly things are going to be in the next months. If that is relatively quiet, things will probably eventually more or less return to normal. If it's gonna be a huge affair, we may never see the end of this -- well, until the Glazers leave...

For our entertainment, let's hope for the latter

	19-05-2005 02:07									#129
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quote: Just because the haven't burnt down the city yet doesn't mean they're gonna sit this one out. They've announced actions for the FA Cup final and are organising for that.

This is an indication regarding only a small minority of opinion.

	19-05-2005 02:24									#130
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quote: Yeah, right. How naive do you have to be to say something like that....

'DanS naive', apparently.

And saying it is a 'small minority of opinion' shows even a greater naivety.

	19-05-2005 02:39									#131
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You are misconstruing what I wrote. I said what happens at the FA cup is only one indication of what a small minority of Man U fans think. Other indicators (merchandising, etc.) will demonstrate what a much broader range of fans think of the matter in the end.

	19-05-2005 03:16									#132
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor Also i think the whole agressive approach is what upsets the ManU fans most, to them he's a 'flash yank' with all the money but no idea of what ManU really is about(this may not be true, but i think its how it seems to the majority of fans/onlookers).

If Glazer was the flash Yank with all the money, why is he needing so much debt financing?

	19-05-2005 05:05									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon All together now!! "WHO'S THAT BURNING ON THE RUNWAY..."

	19-05-2005 05:44									#134
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BTW whats a 'poision pill' in the context of preventing takeovers? Someone mentioned the term a few pages back.

	19-05-2005 05:56									#135
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Poison pill is a term used to describe a variety of potential strategies to fight off a hostile takeover. One strategy is to dilute the stock - a simplified example is if somebody buys 10% of a company, you issue more shares to knock that percentage down to, say, 5%. Another strategy is to issue a new class of preferred stock, with increased voting power, to a select group of shareholders that will align themselves against the raider. Yet another strategy (especially used in fighting off a hostile LBO) is to burden the company with debt levels that will make the LBO unsustainable.

"LBO" stands for Leveraged BuyOut (I capitalized the "O" to show where the acronym comes from), which is what Glazer did - use the companies assets and earnings to sustain the both the carrying costs of the debt and the repayment of it.

	19-05-2005 16:47									#136
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http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-...olm-glazier.php

	19-05-2005 19:14									#137
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Mild chuckle.

	19-05-2005 20:05									#138
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Mild chuckle.

Yeah, not as funny as it could have been.

	19-05-2005 20:08									#139
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To be honest, I'm sort of underwhelmed at the creativity of the Man U fans. I would have thought they could skewer Glazer a lot better, considering he owns the Buccaneers and the team logo is a pirate flag.

	19-05-2005 22:39									#140
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/...ter/4561463.stm

Black shirts? 'hundreds of fans will protest' - not much in the greater scheme of things. It is looking like the takeover may indeed be 'business as usual' ?

Last edited by child of Thor on 19-05-2005 at 22:45

	20-05-2005 02:54									#141
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Well, to be fair, it said hundreds of fans will show up at the organizing meeting for the protest. Presumably, more would show up for the actual protest.

	20-05-2005 03:00									#142
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Turns out the guy is also postponing the interest payments on the loan until the end of the loan! (ITV News tonight)

So, have I got this right? He's got a loan using the club as collaterall and he won't even be paying interest on it until the end of the term when he has to pay it all?

	20-05-2005 03:04									#143
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Yeh, it's a loan with a balloon payment at the end.

	20-05-2005 03:07									#144
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever So, have I got this right? He's got a loan using the club as collaterall and he won't even be paying interest on it until the end of the term when he has to pay it all?

Awww, the Yank didn't have a glorious plan for the club to magically make an extra £25m a year? And now he postpones the payment as much as he can? That's so cute

	20-05-2005 03:08									#145
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Yeh, it's a loan with a balloon payment at the end.

So (and please be patient, I'm a bit lost here!) if he does well it means he's made 'money for nothing' so to speak. If he doesn't do well, he have to realize *a lot* of money from somewhere to pay the loan off?

	20-05-2005 03:12									#146
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Yep.

I think there was a mix of instruments used in the deal. Some was straight up secured debt. Some was preferred shares with convertability provisions. Some was Glazer's own cash.

	20-05-2005 03:12									#147
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever So (and please be patient, I'm a bit lost here!) if he does well it means he's made 'money for nothing' so to speak. If he doesn't do well, he have to realize *a lot* of money from somewhere to pay the loan off?

Simple. He'll sell the club to fans, and the fans will reimburse the debt he incurred. Glazer may have considerably ****ed the club, but now that he has secured 75% of the company, he's basically sure not to lose anything. There'll always be Manure fanatics who'll pay overpriced shares, and who'll pay the debt, only so that they can get rid of the man.

	20-05-2005 03:15									#148
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Oh Jesus... so when the loan ends, ManU is screwed. Will they have to take out another loan to pay for the interest?

	20-05-2005 03:16									#149
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Oh Jesus... so when the loan ends, ManU is screwed. Will they have to take out another loan to pay for the interest?

Nah, Glazier will sell the sinking ship to fans, who'll dig out all the money because they want to be benefactors of the club

	20-05-2005 03:35									#150
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Poison pill is a term used to describe a variety of potential strategies to fight off a hostile takeover. One strategy is to dilute the stock - a simplified example is if somebody buys 10% of a company, you issue more shares to knock that percentage down to, say, 5%.

Issuing shares to prevent a takeover is a breach of the directors' fiduciary duties.

The others are a bit dodgy too.

Edit - I'm tired, and am stating the obvious ('poison pill' and all). Feel free to ignore me.