12-05-2005 22:52									#1
	Why don't they use halftracks anymore? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

So? During WWII they were used en masse on both sides. Sure, they had also only-wheeled (like trucks) as well as only-tracked vehicles (like tanks) at this time. But we have them both as well, only the halftracks disappeared.

So what happened to the halftracks?

I think it was a big conspiracy against them.

	12-05-2005 23:01									#2
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was ist ein "halftrack"?

	12-05-2005 23:02									#3
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro So what happened to the halftracks?

Helicopters.

	12-05-2005 23:03									#4
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A vehicle which has "normal" wheels (with tires and stuff) and tracks

Here are two examples:

http://showcase.netins.net/web/iamvpa/prod04.htm

	12-05-2005 23:03									#5
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My first guess: they were replaced by helicopters. Damn, Che beat me to it!

	12-05-2005 23:05									#6
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Hm, but APCs are still in use, they are just either wheeled or tracked.

	12-05-2005 23:07									#7
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo My first guess: they were replaced by helicopters. Damn, Che beat me to it!

But we were wrong.

quote: Half-tracks were used extensively in World War II by all sides, especially the Germans and Americans, but fell out of favor soon after, replaced with fully-tracked or fully-wheeled vehicles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-track

	12-05-2005 23:17									#8
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quote: But we were wrong.

But not completely wrong. Helicopters are used to transport troops, to transport the wounded, or to transport artillery. Granted they're not the cheapest way to go from point A to point B.

Wikipedia doesn't say why they fell out of favor. Maybe they just were a bad idea.

	12-05-2005 23:26									#9
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Probably just obsolete technology. They've made a few improvements to both tracked and wheeled vehicles since WWII, so there probably isn't any point in combining them anymore.

	12-05-2005 23:47									#10
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What was the intention to invent them in the first place?

	13-05-2005 00:01									#11
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2nd Ata

	13-05-2005 00:13									#12
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo But not completely wrong. Helicopters are used to transport troops, to transport the wounded, or to transport artillery. Granted they're not the cheapest way to go from point A to point B. Wikipedia doesn't say why they fell out of favor. Maybe they just were a bad idea.

They were too much of a middle of the road compromise to be really useful in the long run. As hard to maintain as a fully tracked vehicle, but easier to throw the tracks and less mobile off road and in soft or wet ground.

Way better off-road mobility than wheeled vehicles, but less reliable, much worse fuel consumption, slower on roads, and they'd beat the hell out of most roads far faster than equivalent weight of wheeled transport.

	13-05-2005 00:28									#13
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A better question is why were the stupid things designed and built that way in the first place? All the problems of both wheels and tracks with none of the benefits. Some 'bright boy' who never had to use one invented it no doubt.

	13-05-2005 00:33									#14
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The need to simplify supply chain and logistics. They didn't do anything real well, but they did provide armored and cavalry units with more mobility for their non-armor assets while reducing the number and types of total support vehicles.

Both the Germans and the US got a lot of mileage off their respective basic half-track chassis, for things like mortar carriers, ammo carriers, signals, AAA, recon, and other vehicles.

	13-05-2005 02:43									#15
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH A better question is why were the stupid things designed and built that way in the first place? All the problems of both wheels and tracks with none of the benefits. Some 'bright boy' who never had to use one invented it no doubt.

Yep go all tracked like the M111 or al wheeled like the BTR.

	13-05-2005 03:27									#16
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Before WW2 there weren't anywhere near as many paved roads. Halftrack performs much better on bad roads and the truck chassis is much cheaper than fully tracked.

	13-05-2005 03:30									#17
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chemicles and bio warfare

	13-05-2005 04:00									#18
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat The need to simplify supply chain and logistics. They didn't do anything real well, but they did provide armored and cavalry units with more mobility for their non-armor assets while reducing the number and types of total support vehicles. Both the Germans and the US got a lot of mileage off their respective basic half-track chassis, for things like mortar carriers, ammo carriers, signals, AAA, recon, and other vehicles.

The problem in the 1940s was building a track to support a vehicle long enough to carry a squad of men. The shorter tracks used by half-tracks were cheaper, easier to build and easier to maintain. Today we have better metals and better manufactring techniques, so making half-track vehicles doesn't really save as much money. Also, in the 1950s when the possibility that troops might have to fight in a nuclear war the military wanted vehicles that could be completely enclosed and equipped with air scrubbers. It's easier to build a full tracked vehicle that meets those requirements.

	13-05-2005 06:16									#19
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They were upgraded to M-113, M2, and M3 Bradley's.

	13-05-2005 07:05									#20
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The hlaf track itself is a good idea, however with the advent of the chopter at the end of wwii and the start of korea, the utility of the half track became void. The maintenance consts of any track vehicle is more expensive than their wheeled counterparts. Tracks, from memory on the abrams have a shelf life of a couple thousand clicks. Therefore, for utility purposes, the chopper is the new all terrian vehcile, with combat duties divided betweem tracked and wheeled vehicles...

	13-05-2005 07:06									#21
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I used to build plastic model half-tracks when I was a kid.

I miss building plastic models.

	13-05-2005 07:15									#22
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I used to build plastic model half-tracks when I was a kid. I miss building plastic models.

then go build some plastic models!

	13-05-2005 07:15									#23
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I've got nowhere to put the finished products.

	13-05-2005 07:18									#24
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quote: Originally posted by atomant The hlaf track itself is a good idea, however with the advent of the chopter at the end of wwii and the start of korea, the utility of the half track became void. The maintenance consts of any track vehicle is more expensive than their wheeled counterparts. Tracks, from memory on the abrams have a shelf life of a couple thousand clicks. Therefore, for utility purposes, the chopper is the new all terrian vehcile, with combat duties divided betweem tracked and wheeled vehicles...

Choppers as all aircraft use a lot more fuel, and are more vulnerable to enemy fire (ground vehicles tend not to fall from the sky if badly damaged).

One question to the more martially knowledagble- did the US scrap the whole chopper cavalrty notion, or what? Cause we don't seem to have masses of blackhawks landing troops right into combat anymore like we did with huey's in 'Nam.

	13-05-2005 15:10									#25
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Choppers as all aircraft use a lot more fuel, and are more vulnerable to enemy fire (ground vehicles tend not to fall from the sky if badly damaged). One question to the more martially knowledagble- did the US scrap the whole chopper cavalrty notion, or what? Cause we don't seem to have masses of blackhawks landing troops right into combat anymore like we did with huey's in 'Nam.

The purpose of tracked vehicles is that they have much better weight distribution than wheeled vehicles. This makes a big difference when your vehicle has to traverse soft surfaces (eg off paved roads) or when your vehicle is exceptionally heavy (eg armored) or both. The half track was simply a compromise between a truck and a tracked vehicle like the Bren Carrier. As a hybrid though it really had no advantages over either of its component parts other than the fact that much of it could be built in an existing truck factory rather than an overextended tractor or tank factory. Once WW2 was over there was plenty of excess production capacity for tracked vehicles and the shortcomings of the half track were well known. So they were replaced largely by fully tracked vehicles with much better armor protection (overhead protection, more armor sloping, much better protection for the driver's compartment), or by fully wheeled vehicles where they were more appropriate.

As for the helicopter question, the use of helicopters has been curtailed to an extent since Vietnam largely because the nature of that conflict varied quite a bit from many missions the Pentagon has had to carry out or contemplated carrying out in the interim. Certainly many cold war scenarios with their high density of anti aircraft missles and artillery seemed overly dangerous for a unit that relies mostly on helicopters for its transport. Only the 101st Airmobile has anything like the helicopter mobility that the 1st Cav had in Vietnam. IIRC the 101st has one heli-mobile brigade.

Today (or recently anyway) every division has at least one helicopter transport battalion, which can provide enough transport capability to move and supply a moderate infantry force. Transport helicopters are still used more extensively in elite units like the Special Forces and Rangers who usually operate in less heavy weapon populated environs. Scout and attack helicopters are still used frequently today by any units that can make good use of them, but helicopter assaults are less common and infantry assaults in general are less common.

	13-05-2005 15:46									#26
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I've got nowhere to put the finished products.

Is that because you live in a crappy tenement, like all commies?

	13-05-2005 16:45									#27
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quote: One question to the more martially knowledagble- did the US scrap the whole chopper cavalrty notion, or what? Cause we don't seem to have masses of blackhawks landing troops right into combat anymore like we did with huey's in 'Nam.

well sikander already answered....but if you look at vietnam and then at the big war after that iraq I and II...the countries arent exactly the same...vietnam jungle so land vehicles would have a much harder time to get any where...and Iraq mostly desert so tanks and jeeps can move more freely....then look at the fuel comsuption of the two types helios vs. APC's and i think it clear

	13-05-2005 19:03									#28
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I've got nowhere to put the finished products.

Sell them on Ebay. People are always buying stuff like that. If you can't sell them give them as presents to kids in the family As long as you enjoy building them there are always possibilities of putting them to good use afterwards by either selling them or giving them to kids. You could be that nice old man that makes models