14-05-2005 13:48									#1
	Help Software Company Stop the "Thought Thieves"!! Remove this text

Jesus... as if repackaging Windows XP and advertising it again wasn't pathetic enough: Microsoft now wants to help educate kids about people who steal the ideas of others.

http://www.msn.co.uk/thoughtthieves/Default.asp

Does anyone else who isn't Asher see the delicious irony in this contest?

Oh... and don't forget to download your poster and remember that open source software is a communist cancer!!!!

	14-05-2005 22:57									#2
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0.25/10

	14-05-2005 23:07									#3
	Re: Help Software Company Stop the "Thought Thieves"!! Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Agathon Jesus... as if repackaging Windows XP and advertising it again wasn't pathetic enough: Microsoft now wants to help educate kids about people who steal the ideas of others. http://www.msn.co.uk/thoughtthieves/Default.asp Does anyone else who isn't Asher see the delicious irony in this contest? Oh... and don't forget to download your poster and remember that open source software is a communist cancer!!!!

I see the irony. This from a company that stole the GUI concept from Apple.

	14-05-2005 23:12									#4
	Re: Re: Help Software Company Stop the "Thought Thieves"!! Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Qilue I see the irony. This from a company that stole the GUI concept from Apple.

Edumacate yourself.

Apple is anything but the originator of the GUI concept...

	14-05-2005 23:15									#5
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Let's put it this way:

Xerox PARC has a GUI system.
Steve Jobs visits Xerox PARC.
Steve Jobs hires dozens of Xerox PARC employees.
Apple releases a GUI.
MS releases a GUI.
Mac fanboys and idiots the world over will harp about how MS copied Apple for decades.

	14-05-2005 23:32									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Let's put it this way: Xerox PARC has a GUI system. Steve Jobs visits Xerox PARC. Steve Jobs hires dozens of Xerox PARC employees. Apple releases a GUI. MS releases a GUI. Mac fanboys and idiots the world over will harp about how MS copied Apple for decades.

Technically it is correct. M$ stole it from Apple who stole it from Xerox. Had M$ stole the idea from Xerox, then that would have been discussed instead for decades.

	14-05-2005 23:36									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Qilue Technically it is correct. M$ stole it from Apple who stole it from Xerox. Had M$ stole the idea from Xerox, then that would have been discussed instead for decades.

The GUI concepts have been around even before Xerox did it. Hell, the mouse existed since the 60s.

I find it ridiculous to argue about who stole what, since representing information graphically isn't an insanely hardcore/amazingly intellectual concept to begin with.

The GUI concepts and interaction techniques were refined for decades. MS has refined aspects of the GUI, so has Apple, so has Xerox, etc.

It's time for the children to stop mindlessly trolling about who "stole" the GUI concept from who, and focus on something they know something about.

	14-05-2005 23:44									#8
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The problem I have is that the windows GUI was far, far too close to the Macintosh GUI. (And we won't go into how much of MS-DOS was stolen from various sources either ... that would take way too long ) It's not that Windows borrowed or not, it's that Windows didn't even improve it - they just used elements that Apple had developed, and poorly, for years afterwards (Windows didn't get back up to par of even early macintosh OS until Windows 95 ...)

	14-05-2005 23:46									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The GUI concepts have been around even before Xerox did it. Hell, the mouse existed since the 60s. I find it ridiculous to argue about who stole what, since representing information graphically isn't an insanely hardcore/amazingly intellectual concept to begin with. The GUI concepts and interaction techniques were refined for decades. MS has refined aspects of the GUI, so has Apple, so has Xerox, etc. It's time for the children to stop mindlessly trolling about who "stole" the GUI concept from who, and focus on something they know something about.

A name springs to mind - Wayne Kerr.

	14-05-2005 23:48									#10
	Remove this text

Xerox Star:


Apple Macintosh:


Microsoft Windows 1.0:


Microsoft Windows 2.0:


They don't look very close to me.

	15-05-2005 00:26									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Qilue Technically it is correct. M$ stole it from Apple who stole it from Xerox. Had M$ stole the idea from Xerox, then that would have been discussed instead for decades.

M$ M$ M$ OOH I'M SO COOL

	15-05-2005 01:19									#12
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Early Windows is butt-ugly.

	15-05-2005 01:45									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Early Windows is butt-ugly.

And so is XP. A candy store by default??

	15-05-2005 02:32									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Technically it is correct. M$ stole it from Apple who stole it from Xerox. Had M$ stole the idea from Xerox, then that would have been discussed instead for decades.

Apple didn't steal anything from Xerox. They paid Xerox. In any case Apple hired most of the talented GUI people away from Xerox, and they are who invented it, not a corporation. In any case the Star GUI and the Macintosh GUI only look similar – they work in completely different ways. Most of the GUI conventions that people use now come from the Macintosh.

It's a matter of legal record that Microsoft shamelessly copied the Mac interface – Gates himself is on record as saying he wanted Mac on a PC.

But why restrict it to Apple? Microsoft is the biggest thief in the computer industry whatever slavering Microsofties like Asher say.

	15-05-2005 03:15									#15
	Re: Re: Help Software Company Stop the "Thought Thieves"!! Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Qilue I see the irony. This from a company that stole the GUI concept from Apple.

they both stole it from Xerox I think.

	15-05-2005 06:26									#16
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For an history of the GUI:
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/gui.ars

	15-05-2005 07:16									#17
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Enough of your bigotry, Aggie. Stick to hating Bill Gates for churning out crappy bug-filled software that gets raped by viruses. Or for using heavy-handed business strategies to ensure that anybody who uses a computer anywhere is forced to use said crap. The possibility that he might have stolen an idea from some other geek before half the people on this forum were even born? Psht. Remember, "a little hypocrisy never erased a twenty-page paper. So don't sweat it."

	15-05-2005 07:29									#18
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Windows 95 = Mac 84 = Xerox 73

So please, let's stop the whining.

	15-05-2005 07:33									#19
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Obviously Che knows little about the Xerox Alto.

Anyway, win a free ipod!!!

http://www.i-mockery.com/minimocks/ipod/default.php

The Ashley Simpson one is the best.

	15-05-2005 08:36									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Microsoft Windows 1.0:

Did anybody notice something strange? How come the calendar is 1999?

Another thing is, AFAIK, Windows 3.0 was the first Windows with a GUI.

	15-05-2005 10:02									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Did anybody notice something strange? How come the calendar is 1999?

You don't think it's possible at all for someone to capture the screen as part of a history document?

quote: Another thing is, AFAIK, Windows 3.0 was the first Windows with a GUI.

Well, as usual, you're so fundamentally off-base that I really would like to know which university you got your degree from. If it was any self-respecting university, they'd revoke it.

FWIW, the screenshots come from the ArsTechnica "History of GUIs" article that was linked above. ArsTechnica has a sterling reputation in the community, so if you want to do accuse them of lying or faking screenshots, that's your perogative. In the end you're still a clueless partisan idiot.

	15-05-2005 10:15									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Apple didn't steal anything from Xerox. They paid Xerox. In any case Apple hired most of the talented GUI people away from Xerox, and they are who invented it, not a corporation.

It's interesting that you arbitarily separate the inventors/developers from corporation only when it suits you best.

The GUI has been a "work in progress" for decades -- many people from many companies working on it, even before Xerox.

The Apple fanboys have little to be proud of, so they compensate by making **** up blatantly or twisting it to reflect the God status of Apple, "The Creator".

	15-05-2005 10:22									#23
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wow, I've never seen Win 1.0 before. It's pretty ****ing ugly. the xerox one looks the better one of them all, really.

	15-05-2005 10:25									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Az wow, I've never seen Win 1.0 before. It's pretty ****ing ugly. the xerox one looks the better one of them all, really.

Windows ran on a lot easier (and cheaper) hardware than those.

The Xerox GUI looks nice, but when the machine costs $75,000 to run it on...

	15-05-2005 10:29									#25
	Suffering from ads?

Yeah, i pretty much realize that: the xerox machine looks like a computer from the 90s. Still, the colour pattern on the win1.0 is the most disgusting thing ever. ( Though it does come frome the 80s ).

I prefer the more clean-cut, b&w look, ala apple and xerox.

	15-05-2005 10:38									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Asher You don't think it's possible at all for someone to capture the screen as part of a history document?

You missed it entirely.

If it were something like 1989, sure. 1999 was after Windows 98, thus, a highly dubious image.

quote: Originally posted by Asher FWIW, the screenshots come from the ArsTechnica "History of GUIs" article that was linked above. ArsTechnica has a sterling reputation in the community, so if you want to do accuse them of lying or faking screenshots, that's your perogative.

That's all right, something like this would demand at least a second, independent source.

quote: Originally posted by Asher In the end you're still a clueless partisan idiot.

That's 24 hours for you, Mr Milford.

	15-05-2005 11:13									#27
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quote: You missed it entirely. If it were something like 1989, sure. 1999 was after Windows 98, thus, a highly dubious image.

I still have a PC running Windows 95. Does that mean if I take a screenshot of its Time/Date Properties with today's (2005) date on it, it's automatically dubious? Additionally, I think I would have a hard time believing an image would still exist 16 years. Personally I find a Win 1.0 SS with a 1989 date on it far more dubious

quote: That's all right, something like this would demand at least a second, independent source.

No it doesn't. It is certainly nothing out of the ordinary. Like I said, and Asher implied, there's nothing stopping someone setting up a system with Windows 1.0 on it. Just a question of getting the relevant pieces. There'd be no real point to it, other than for a historical document, but it is certainly possible.

Really I don't see where your problem lies.

	15-05-2005 12:12									#28
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I think they should have incremented the year. January 9, 1900 would have been hilarious.

SP

	15-05-2005 12:13									#29
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: The GUI has been a "work in progress" for decades -- many people from many companies working on it, even before Xerox.

And you continue to repeat the same tiresome crap you always do. Nowhere have I ever claimed that Apple invented the whole widget. On the other hand, I have claimed that the current crop of GUIs owes more to the Macintosh than to anything that came before it. Even the Ars article basically says that IIRC.

	15-05-2005 12:21									#30
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Perhaps screenshots from a Sourceforge project are reliable:


http://bochs.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html

Maybe an IBM employee working on a Mac would be more believeable:




http://www.kernelthread.com/mac/vpc/win.html

Hmmm...

SP