15-05-2005 22:51									#1
	Democracy does not need archeology Get a bigger avatar today!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4461755.stm

	15-05-2005 23:24									#2
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Thats really a huge shame.

Iraq is historically one of, if not the, most imporant places of the Academic world. Losing so much of that history is a big loss to everyone.

	15-05-2005 23:26									#3
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And whose fault is it? Plunderers, NOT Amerian soldiers as implied in the article

	15-05-2005 23:34									#4
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It reminds me of Lavoisier who was condemned to death in 1794 because "the Republic does not need scientists". I can imagine Rumsfeld telling a scolar worried about places in Iraq that should not be looted or destroyed : "democracy does not need archeologists".

	15-05-2005 23:39									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion And whose fault is it? Plunderers, NOT Amerian soldiers as implied in the article

Come on. If they're involved in even the smallest manner, it's the US's fault. Eastern European police shoot dead dozens of protesters- US's fault. Iraqi idiots look their own historical articfacts- US's fault. And so on.

	15-05-2005 23:39									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion And whose fault is it? Plunderers, NOT Amerian soldiers as implied in the article

If not American soldiers, it seems that US military vehicule have been at fault.

quote: Heavy boots Coalition forces have themselves damaged archaeological sites by using them as military bases. The withdrawal of coalition troops from Babylon has revealed irreversible damage to one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. An alarming report by the keeper of the British Museum's Near East department, Dr John Curtis, describes how areas in the middle of the archaeological site were levelled to create a landing area for helicopters and parking lots for heavy vehicles. Looted Sumerian sites now resemble the surface of the moon "They caused substantial damage to the Ishtar Gate, one of the most famous monuments from antiquity," he wrote. "US military vehicles crushed 2,600-year-old brick pavements, archaeological fragments were scattered across the site, more then 12 trenches were driven into ancient deposits and military earth-moving projects contaminated the site for future generations of scientists. "Add to all that the damage caused to nine of the moulded brick figures of dragons in the Ishtar Gate by people trying to remove the bricks from the wall."

	15-05-2005 23:40									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie Come on. If they're involved in even the smallest manner, it's the US's fault. Eastern European police shoot dead dozens of protesters- US's fault. Iraqi idiots look their own historical articfacts- US's fault. And so on.

Uzbekistan is Central Asia. but I agree.

	15-05-2005 23:44									#8
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Oh, well that was a guess, I didn't even know it was Uzbekistan (I've not watched the news in ages). Shows how much I know!

	15-05-2005 23:48									#9
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I remember American media telling us "that was overdramatized, nothing to see here" when the issue first came out during the lootings, two years ago.

	16-05-2005 01:26									#10
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Who cares about some bricks

	16-05-2005 01:28									#11
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It's our history, dude. How'd you feel if the Mormon Cathedral was turned into an airbase?

	16-05-2005 01:31									#12
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Jet engines are of the way of the future

	16-05-2005 01:42									#13
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The things haven't disappeared. There are probably many experts around in Iraq checking out all possible basars and markets and buy the things back.

	16-05-2005 03:45									#14
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quote: The things haven't disappeared.

Not reading very well, aren't we? Whole sites are destroyed. It's a ****ing shame, they are destroying our history, our heritage. This is were we ****ing come from.

	16-05-2005 04:03									#15
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Why should I care? There happen to be more substantial problems in Iraq that merrit attention. Perhaps you've heard of an insergency going on there.

	16-05-2005 04:11									#16
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Why should I care? There happen to be more substantial problems in Iraq that merrit attention. Perhaps you've heard of an insergency going on there.

And another well thought out response by DD

	16-05-2005 04:21									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij And another well thought out response by DD

That doesn't really answer the question of why this should rate highly in comparison to the litany of other problems the country is facing. But if it makes you feel better don't let me stop you.

Other than bemoaning the rather obvious fact that war is shitty. However, I'd rather rail against the sky for being blue.

	16-05-2005 04:36									#18
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It's our history, dude. How'd you feel if the Mormon Cathedral was turned into an airbase?

would we bomb godless communists from this airbase?

	16-05-2005 05:22									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Verto Jet engines are of the way of the future

Didja just see that movie?

"It's the way of the future... it's the way of the future... it's the way of the future..."

	16-05-2005 07:07									#20
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It's our history, dude. How'd you feel if the Mormon Cathedral was turned into an airbase?

I'm firmly convinced that people will attack the US no matter what it does. If we leave the sites alone and Arab theives steal everything then the US gets yelled at. If they try to guard it 24/7 by making the site an off limits military controlled area then it's "OKMMG! THE EVIL AMERICANS ARE DESTROYING EVERYTHING!!!1!!".

Those areas they know are actual dig sites then they are kept off limits but if there is to be 24/7 protection then it must be a base and there must be roads around the base and vehicles will be used. There is either no base and Arabs loot everything or there is a base and we accept that roads will be constructed and vehicles will be used.

	16-05-2005 09:52									#21
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Didja just see that movie? "It's the way of the future... it's the way of the future... it's the way of the future..."

My only knowledge of that quote is from seeing it on Eventis.

	16-05-2005 10:23									#22
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And you never wondered why it was used in reference to Tass?

	16-05-2005 11:47									#23
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I think those that are seriously concerned about it should get together and go protect those sites. I mean it is your history. Without those bricks and shards or pottery you will never know who you are.

	16-05-2005 11:53									#24
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

So those who are depreciating the invaluable quality of artifacts and historical places in this thread would not be upset, if, say, someone destroys the original copy of the US Constitution?

I mean, it's just a piece of paper that has no importance, right?

	16-05-2005 13:26									#25
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Another neocon commandment :

Preemptive wars are started in the best interest of the US; collateral damages are charged to the rest of the world.

	16-05-2005 14:00									#26
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It is undeniably the responsibility of the Invading army to safeguard national treshures. Do you think when the Alies liberated Paris from the Natzis they just left the Luve unguarded so people could walk in and rip the paintings off the wall?? What kind of ****ed up mentality do these conservatives have that says its not their responsibility to enforce the basic laws of the land after ceasing power. As usualy "responsibility" for them aplies only to individuals and not goverments. When an Iraqi civilian steals from another Iragi (remember that everything was looted after the invasion) its the fault of an irresponsible Iraq not them.

	16-05-2005 14:25									#27
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"Democracy is messy..." -- Donald "What, me worry?" Rumsfeld

	16-05-2005 14:41									#28
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Did anyone else see that documentary on PBS about the looting of the Iraqi National Museum? It seemed to indicate that much of the looting, and most of the most valuable losses there happened before the U.S. got to Baghdad. There was some unorganized looting by local neighborhood Shi'ites after the fact in order to cover up the crime committed by Saddam's boys.

Anyway, this is all a shame as it is in practically every war. Too bad people aren't allowed to form private heritage defense units in order to safeguard some of these sites. American troops have their missions, Iraqi troops have their missions and these sites fall through the cracks.

	16-05-2005 17:47									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Verto My only knowledge of that quote is from seeing it on Eventis.

You need to see "The Aviator" to get a full appreciation of that quote.

The fact that it's now being applied to Tassy makes it even better.

	16-05-2005 18:18									#30
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I demand the entire continent of Europe be declared an off limits area. Every field tilled, every road built, every footfall landed is destorying something historic.