16-05-2005 19:43									#1
	Us vs Laval, Qc. I'm in a bind.... Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Well, I didn't get such good news last Friday. Been thinking about it for the whole weekend and I still dont know what to do. So maybe some of you can provide a bit of help.
As most of you probably know, I opened a business 2 years ago of car parts distribution and installation. Now we have something bigger we are planning to open on March 2006. It's a custom car auto-complex. 4 companies together, me and 3 others. Basicly, I do the parts and mecanics, another company does the stereo systems/alarms, other one does decals/carwash/compound and such and the last one does car upholstery.

So we found a great spot to open up the auto complexe. I found a builder to get the building up for March 2006, no problem. The company builds it then we rent, no moving in and arrangement spendings . So I went to city planning to check the zoning (what we are allowed to operate/type of business) at the city hall and everything was fine, that's 6 months ago...

So last week, while making my business plan I needed to get confirmation that IN FACT there was no problem with us openning that kind of business in that particular spot. When I receive the zoning plans, it seems that now, car washs are not allowed there...but car dealers are. And what I dont understand is that car dealers do wash cars all days long, it's just not advertised as a carwash.

Now, I have to tell the guys that is bringing the carwash/decals/compound company with usthat they cant go there no more....which threatens to make the hole project collapse. BUT, I can make a request to change the zoning so that the city will allow a carwash there, but it costs 1700$ with no garantee and it takes ATLEAST a year....we plan on opening on March 2006. It doesn't add up....

So my solutions are: Telling the guy he cant come no more but it doesn't seem like an option cuz we are counting on him to have a full auto-complexe with nothing missing.
Make a request for a zoning change which is not necessarly going to work
Or
Operate the carwash under the fact that they need to clean cars before they apply the decals or compound....This could work but it's really playing with fire.
I think the guys could combine option 2 and 3. Make a zoning request change this week so that we'd have an answer in a year and operate the car wash under some other reason than a full carwash for 4 months after the car complexe opens until we get the zoning change. But the problem is that the zoning change is not garanteed, although I dont see why it would'nt work but we never EVER know with cities and the reasons why they choose the zonings they do.

I am the one planning the whole thing for me and everyone else, so I'm in control of the information. What would you guys do?

	16-05-2005 19:53									#2
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Bring your partners in and lay out the situation.

I wonder if the zoning has to do with the chemicals that car-washes use. Dealers may wash cars but I dont think its the same volume of pollutants.

	16-05-2005 19:56									#3
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quote: I think the guys could combine option 2 and 3.

I'm no zoning expert, but I agree with this. I would also talk to someone at a dealer where they do wash cars, or someone who advertises as a "detailer" and not a "car wash" and see how they define themselves in their buisness liscense.

Apart from the heavy water use and runoff I think the zoning commision might be more concerned with the type of traffic that a car wash brings. I would ask at the county office about that, too.

IMO, your guy ain't a "car wash" and isn't doing as high a turnover, he does "custom exteriors".

	16-05-2005 20:59									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Japher IMO, your guy ain't a "car wash" and isn't doing as high a turnover, he does "custom exteriors".

Well, he is because that was his major money income. You dont make as many decals as cars that you can wash. Plus, we're on the highway right in front of where the traffic stops so people will just pull-in and have their car washed instead of waiting in traffic. So we'll see.

I just wrote a letter to the City Planning Director. We will see what happens then. Told him how dealers did the samething as we want to do and why would we not be allowed to do so.

Spence, would you wait for answer from the director before you'd tell your partner so you'd have something solid to tell him or would you just tell him right now that we MAY not be able to have his part advertised firstly as a carwash?

	16-05-2005 21:04									#5
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You should be talking with your partners first and foremost.

	16-05-2005 21:31									#6
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Since you're the organizer I'd wait a few days for the reply, but given the time contraints I wouldnt wait too long. Put yourself in your partners position, wouldnt you want to know that there are zoning problems.

	16-05-2005 21:38									#7
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It's a bit of a long shot but...what exactly do the City Planning people define as a car wash? Do they mean a large car wash machine that the cars drive through? a pressure washer to hose the cars down with? or someone with a bucket and sponge?

Planning issues usually come down to what is in the small print.

	16-05-2005 21:46									#8
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Have you contacted your city district representative? I'd start with that.
Also: i would tell my partner. Maybe he knows someone who knows someone who knows something etc... But even if he doesn't, it's probably better to have him in from the start.
What about the two other partners? Do they know about this?

	16-05-2005 21:55									#9
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I run my own business also, but its nothing to do with cars and I haven't had a partner either. However, if I did have a partner, I would do my best to keep him informed (or I would want to be informed) of all matters related to the venture, irregardless of whether or not I could do anything about it.

Remember, it isn't just your money.

	16-05-2005 21:55									#10
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Put yourself in your partners position, wouldnt you want to know that there are zoning problems.

Yes of course I would. But I would'nt want to be told something that isn't sure. I really think I should wait to have the directors feed back before I create anykind of insecurity...
I am 100% sure that he wont be able to advertise under carwash for the first 6 months atleast...but the law says that he can wash cars to prepare it before anykind of work has to done on a car. That's the written confirmation I am waiting for from the director. So, if this turns out to be true, he'll be able to advertise under Car esthetics, which is known here for "carwashes". He could do this for the first 6 months...Nothing's sure. It's bending the law but working legaly with it.

	16-05-2005 22:01									#11
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I'd want to know if there was a problem, even if was only a potential problem first. I'd think twice about going in to business with someone who withheld information from me.

	16-05-2005 22:01									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Richelieu What about the two other partners? Do they know about this?

No, they dont and it's really not that important. Everything they do is fine with the zoning. If I tell them then I'll creat unnecessary doubts. Hell, if he can have his car wash then I'll just try and find some other company that wants to make decals and air-brush only. Then If I dont find anything and the project goes down the drain, which would be in about 3 months, I'll tell the other 2. It still gives them 7 months to rearange for their current lease.

	16-05-2005 22:02									#13
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I'd want to know if there was a problem, even if was only a potential problem first. I'd think twice about going in to business with someone who withheld information from me.

Your right. Didn't look at it that way. I'll try to tell him tonight.

	16-05-2005 22:03									#14
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And they say commies don't understand business.

	16-05-2005 22:06									#15
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My friend's dad started a restaurant with 2 other men. When they went to franchise it one of the men lied about some other financial dealing he had. For some reason or another, everyone lost out on the franchise because of that lie. The franchise is now a growing steakhouse chain, of which none of the creators are involved.

Sucked.

My friend's dad owns shopping malls and strip malls, and after the failing of that restaurant opened up a bank. He offered me and the rest of the gang in on the pre-IPO, but we were just out of college and none of us (including his son) had any money. My folks bought in, and has been one of the best investments of their lives.

Anyway, I agree with Che, honesty is the best policy. Who knows, maybe your partner has some connections he could use.

	16-05-2005 22:08									#16
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara And they say commies don't understand business.

See, that's exactly it. It's not a question of business, but respect and truthfulness. That's how I didn't look at it. So, no, you dont know business.

	16-05-2005 22:16									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Japher My friend's dad started a restaurant with 2 other men. When they went to franchise it one of the men lied about some other financial dealing he had. For some reason or another, everyone lost out on the franchise because of that lie. The franchise is now a growing steakhouse chain, of which none of the creators are involved. Sucked.

Dude...It's nothing like that. Please....Dont even compare me to that, I'd never do such a thing. Only rats do this

	17-05-2005 00:21									#18
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Keep them in the loop because communication is the key to building trust. Next, with all future letters to the zoning commission use lots of facts as this will make your case stronger. Don't just say "Other people do it to" but instead say "Ted's Chevy and GMC at 666 Hell Way washes a higher volume of cars then we expect to service, yada, yada, yada."

Personally, I'd invite all of the investors together for a lunch meeting at Denny's or something where you could keep everyone informed about what's going on and lay out the options. Keep positive and stress how all projects have bumps and that you think these one can be over come if enough planning is put into it. I'd be tempted to go for the 2--3 combo but that is a lot of money to risk building a car wash without having the permit and the bank will likely want to see permits before construction begins.