 |
| |
|
|
Bereta_Eder
|
|
pericles as narated by thucidides said that he is useless the man who is not interested in koina, politics, the common things of all society.
yet today in the time of a lockesque and smithesque democracy one is interested only in property.
and what difference is the roussaue's approach in which the central in democracy is the freedom, not the property.
and as capitalism and democracy are drifting further apart you got to stop and see.
after the socialdemocrat solution failled to deliver we have entered a neoliberal hell where political representation is waning in the face of globalized economics and without a kensyan model we will soon be hit with another 1930. only it will be bigger if steps are not taken. too bad the commission has become the trojan horse of neoliberalism. too bad.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Bereta_Eder
|
|
sure, that's a big improvement.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Bereta_Eder
|
|
hopwever the core of what i wanted to say is this
quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
after the socialdemocrat solution failled to deliver we have entered a neoliberal hell where political representation is waning in the face of globalized economics and without a kensyan model we will soon be hit with another 1930. only it will be bigger if steps are not taken. too bad the commission has become the trojan horse of neoliberalism. too bad. |
at the central target is the social state, it is the only one who raises the costs. free markets cant autoregulate as they have proven in the past so we are returning to a pre 1930 situation, only this time globalized. and our representation politically is insufficient in the face of free flow and inflow of capital.
and for europeans, the commission has embraced a neoliberal ideology accentuating the danger and the lack of representation.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Lancer
|
|
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:20
|
|
There are slaves in africa, but not in democracies...that I'm aware of.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Lancer
|
|
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:20
|
|
Right, there's sex slaves and maybe slaves on some farm in Idaho, but not legal, institutionalized slavery.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Spiffor
|
 |
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:20
|
|
quote:
pericles as narated by thucidides said that he is useless the man who is not interested in koina, politics, the common things of all society. |
Such an idea cannot be adapted to any government that is bigger than a city-state. Nation States are extremely complex societies, an you'd need huge time to begin knowing all the politics of the place.
The complexity of modern political systems is why we have a political class (of mayors, administrators, parliamentarie, ministers, party members, lobbyists etc.). Simply because no one can cover all the scope of politics even in a full-time job. The ordinary citizen, who has other things to do with his time (especially now that there aren't slaves anymore), cannot have any significant knowledge of politics. Modern democracies don't ask ordinary people for the impossible.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Bereta_Eder
|
|
that is common knowledge spiffor. although very debeatable, this aristocratic system
the main point though is the neoliberal policies in the age of globalized economics and the inediquacy of the current political system to correctly represent us
but i admit i put the wrong title, it only talks of the introduction
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Bereta_Eder
|
|
also the subject of the attacks of this globalized economics on the social state (which raises the work cost -hence the attacks- but of course offers social cohesion) after the failling of the socialdemocratic model. in the core of this attack lies the inability of the political power to influence the global flows of capital and thus represent us. it is outdated one could say
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Bereta_Eder
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
ithout a kensyan model we will soon be hit with another 1930. |
What proof is there for this statement? |
one could say it is a logical derivation. politics no longer have the power to influence economics. so we have a deficient representation. the main objective of globalized economics is to reduce costs to a minimum by takeing out the social state. that would lead to an optimum neoliberal environemnt. based on previous experience the combination of he abolision of social cohesion (through the disolution of the social state) and the abolition of state interference will produce such social tensions that without measures taken will produce two equally powerful results: the collapse of the economy due to over consentration of capital and its inability to autoregulate itself and the dissolution of the social fibre an immidiate result of the reducement to minimum of the social state.
then one could say a new circle of kensyan econopolitics will emerge in order to salvage and regulate the dead end of globalizzation. maybe it will be more socialisticdemocratic than the previous one
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Bereta_Eder
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
One of the underlying, fundamental elements of democracy, is that all citizens participate in one form or another, in their government.
|
i dont think that's true anymore. since the very governments themselves can't controll the flows of capital in the international arena we basically have limited representation compared to the past.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Bereta_Eder
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
the abolition of state interference will produce such social tensions that without measures taken will produce two equally powerful results: the collapse of the economy due to over consentration of capital and its inability to autoregulate itself and the dissolution of the social fibre an immidiate result of the reducement to minimum of the social state. |
How does that explain the state being much larger and powerful than it has been? Secondly, how will the economy collapse 1930s style, which was a Depression which hit its lows because of governmental policies (tight money policy and raising of tariffs?). In 1930, if they left the borders open and expanded money supply, it wouldn't nearly have been so bad. |
the size of the state has nothing to do with the social state. social state means welfare and/or social support to balance the inequalitites that the liberal economy's lack of autoregulation produces.
if the state gets larger maybe that's a way to try and still execute social policy?
what happened in octomber of 1929 was the result of the full adoptation of a liberal approach to economy, wouldnt you agree? that disaster led to the creation of social state and gov. intervention something that held societies together untill the '90s
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Bereta_Eder
|
|
what led to the crash was the inability of the liberal economic model to regulate itself thought, would you agree with that?
(i retain my reservations as to if the gov. intervations made it worse or better however what followeed and proved sucessful was the implementation of a kenysan model, gov. regulation was deemed necessairy to manage economy)
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Dracon II
|
 |
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 1970
time: 15:20
|
|
I'm not afraid of a stock market crash like in 1929 or 1987... these were man-made disasters, and can be ameliorated and recovered from with sound economic policy and cooperation. What worries me are environmental disasters and resource shocks. These will have far more disastrous effects on the global economy than a mere devaluation of shares. If global warming, desertification etc become real problems, or if global oil production peaks... then we're in real trouble.
But I think Paiktis is right about the democratic deficit inherent in the combination of a global economy with politically separate nation-states. I think the economist Dani Rodrick put it best:
quote:
"We can have at most two out of the following three: a) high degrees of international economic integration, b) nation-states and c) mass politics." |
The only solution, without rolling back globalization (potentially disastrous and anachronistic, if not impossible) is to evolve political power upwards. This is happening in the EU. Ultimately the only solution is a global state or a hegemonic economic and military power with the will and ability to reshape the global economy to the benefit of all. Both scenarios are currently pipe dreams.
In the meantime we can only find our respective comparative advantages, run with them... and promote regionalization... but not zero sum regionalization.
Last edited by Dracon II on 17-05-2005 at 09:44
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:20.
Apolyton Time is 00:20. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
16-05-2005 21:00
|