 |
|
chegitz guevara
|
 |
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Admit it, you are redefining 'dictatorship of the proletariat' so it sounds good to others. |
I'm defining it the way Marx did.
When the Paris Commune happened, Marx pointed to it and said, "There is the dictatorship of the proletariat."
Last edited by chegitz guevara on 17-05-2005 at 18:46
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
chegitz guevara
|
|
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Doesn't it strike you as strange that each and every socialist country turned into a dictatorship? |
No. Once Stalin took control of the USSR, he used the Comintern to mold every Communist Party in the world in the CPSU's image. Factions were ousted, independent leaders expelled or murdered, cronies put inpositions of power, etc. Every Communist Party that has taken power since has been one of Stalin's robots. That culture took deep roots, even in parties where Stalin's dictat was ignored, such as in Mao's Communist Party.
Only where the CP has not been a part of the government, basically Nicaragua, do you see a revolutionary socialist government that is not a dictatorship. Until Stalin's grip is purged from Communism, it will continue to be a problem.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
chegitz guevara
|
|
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Az
I hate to play with turds here, but define "accountable to the people". |
By that definition, Cuba isn't a dictatorship, since the Cuban government is very accountable, though not in the ways we traditionally associate with democracy in the West.
#1, the local level of government is open to all, party memebership is not a requirement.
#2, members of higher levels of the government are picked by the level immediately below it, though all levels above the local require party membership.
#3, the government changes policies rapidly to deal with the needs of the Cuban people
#4, there are numerous associations for Cubans that have a lot of impact on the Cuban government, such as women and youth associations, trade unions, etc. While leadership is often in the hands of party members, they do not consider themselves part of the government, and I have seen footage of these people criticising Castro and the government in person
#5, Castro personally meets with many people at all levels of Cuban society. He solicits their opinion, and it isn't like in the U.S., where only hand-picked sycophants are allowed to address the President. It's more like a British town-hall meeting, though I haven't heard anyone call Castro a liar.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ned
|
 |
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
No. Once Stalin took control of the USSR, he used the Comintern to mold every Communist Party in the world in the CPSU's image. Factions were ousted, independent leaders expelled or murdered, cronies put inpositions of power, etc. Every Communist Party that has taken power since has been one of Stalin's robots. That culture took deep roots, even in parties where Stalin's dictat was ignored, such as in Mao's Communist Party.
Only where the CP has not been a part of the government, basically Nicaragua, do you see a revolutionary socialist government that is not a dictatorship. Until Stalin's grip is purged from Communism, it will continue to be a problem. |
When Hitler was telling his people that Stalin had changed into a good guy in 1939, this is what he was referring to. He said that Stalin was no longer trying to take over other countries by using his control of their communist parties. Without that effort, he said, communism was "benign."
I suspect he was wrong, and either found out later that he was wrong or just admitted (to himself only) that Stalin was lying to him.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
chegitz guevara
|
|
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ned
I take it, Che, that you endorse Castro's form of communist dictatorship. |
Endorse, no. It's still a dictatorship and I would prefer democracy. But as dictatorships go, it could be a lot worse. Heck, there are more oppresive democracies in Latin America.
quote:
Assume, for the sake of argument, that the US becomes a dictatorship exactly in the Cuban mold, but with Dear Leader in charge. Would you like that? |
If by Dear Leader, you mean Kim Jong Il, no, I would not like that. Dictatorships depend heavily on the personality of the dictator. Kim thinks he is the son of a god and that the revolution exists to glorify him. Castro is the exact opposite. He thinks he is the savior of Cuba, and that only he can save Cuba. I hope you can understand the difference. One's a patriot, the other is a tyrant. They are both megalomaniacs and dictators, however.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ned
|
|
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
quote:
Originally posted by Ned
I take it, Che, that you endorse Castro's form of communist dictatorship. |
Endorse, no. It's still a dictatorship and I would prefer democracy. But as dictatorships go, it could be a lot worse. Heck, there are more oppresive democracies in Latin America.
quote:
Assume, for the sake of argument, that the US becomes a dictatorship exactly in the Cuban mold, but with Dear Leader in charge. Would you like that? |
If by Dear Leader, you mean Kim Jong Il, no, I would not like that. Dictatorships depend heavily on the personality of the dictator. Kim thinks he is the son of a god and that the revolution exists to glorify him. Castro is the exact opposite. He thinks he is the savior of Cuba, and that only he can save Cuba. I hope you can understand the difference. One's a patriot, the other is a tyrant. They are both megalomaniacs and dictators, however. |
Well, how do you know in advance which kind of man will be the "leader?" Castro or Dear Leader or Stalin or Hitler?
I hope you see the problem if you get it wrong.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:20.
Apolyton Time is 00:20. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
17-05-2005 18:40
hell has frose over 2 people actually agree on poly with eachother after a debate
|