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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:20
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I'm sorry, but for some reason I cannot attach a poll to this thread. I have tried a number of times.
What new "ideas" has communism contributed to the advancement of civilization? In answering this question, consider whether an idea has been generally adopted but also whether it was an idea first broached by communists. Universal education, for example, was first proposed by Luther and has become generally accepted by all.
The below list is taken from the Communist Manifesto. I would add the following:
1) dictatorship of the proletariat;
2) free love, marriage is oppression of women; and
3) from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.
Manifesto
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.
http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/c.../manifesto.html
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Bereta_Eder
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i think that after the industrial revolution bared its ugkly head on the urbanized workers, socialism was born with a sole aim and that is to redestribute the wealth in a more reasonable manner for the benefit of all and not just the owners and oligarchy.
the workers had found themselves without means to represent themselves efficiently in the democracy. communism started as a way to change that and make the system more democratic in fact.
in order to do that we needed the elevation of the workers from total deprivation. so i'd say the best prt of communism was the creation of the social state.
we are entering a similar phase now where there is inadequate represenation in the age of globalization. economy can no longer be controlled by politics.
bare in mind that the early socialists believed that there will be a natural drive towards socialist societies. the octobrian revolution was just a premature but explainable parenthesis.
another good thing that communism gave to the world was the opposite awe to the capitalistic imperial. the effects of which can be seen now that this imperia is unchecked and unchallenged.
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Bereta_Eder
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if i know this right communism is the end of the socialist road. so i'd say that i used "communism" wrongly. in fact communism has never been "achieved".
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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
1) dictatorship of the proletariat; |
not adopted
quote:
2) free love, marriage is oppression of women; and |
Not adopted in its purest form, but the man/woman relationships have considerably evolved since that time.
quote:
3) from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. |
An excellent idea, that has never been fully implemented. The closest we came to this idea was under social democracy (the socialist regimes lacked the "from each according to his ability" part).
Manifesto
quote:
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. |
Didn't happen in the west. China had such a system since imperial times however.
quote:
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. |
Implemented, but the governments are going backwards now.
quote:
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance. |
Not implemented
quote:
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. |
Often implemented in authoritarian and totalitarian regimes. It wasn't a new idea at all either.
quote:
5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly. |
Implemented in the societ bloc. Almost implemented in France suring the 80ies.
quote:
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state. |
Implemented in most European countries, before the wave of privatization.
quote:
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. |
dunno
quote:
8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. |
The equal obligation of all to work never happened.
quote:
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country. |
Agriculture became increasingly industrialized, but the geographic distinction between town and country didn't change.
quote:
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. |
Implemented in pretty much every developed country.
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
State monopolies on communications and transport obviously are a very bad idea. |
The whole of Great Britain will disagree, especially as far as transport is concerned.
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Kidicious
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Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:20
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Manifesto
quote:
When, in the course of development, class distinctions have disappeared, and all production has been concentrated in the hands of a vast association of the whole nation, the public power will lose its political character. Political power, properly so called, is merely the organized power of one class for oppressing another. If the proletariat during its contest with the bourgeoisie is compelled, by the force of circumstances, to organize itself as a class; if, by means of a revolution, it makes itself the ruling class, and, as such, sweeps away by force the old conditions of production, then it will, along with these conditions, have swept away the conditions for the existence of class antagonisms and of classes generally, and will thereby have abolished its own supremacy as a class. |
The bourgeoisie has to be swept away. Only a dictatorship of the proletariate can do that. Political power means oppression. The proletariate has representation but not power because they can not stop their own oppression. Representation is not enough to prevent it.
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16-05-2005 22:44
@ thread attempts.
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