17-05-2005 18:57									#31
	Support Apolyton

you need a good hiding for posting that Colon

	17-05-2005 19:05									#32
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Colon Please read my link people: Obsessive-compulsive is certainly not the same as Asperger's, it just tends to occur a lot with people who have Asperger's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger's_syndrome http://web.syr.edu/~rjkopp/data/as_diag_list.html

IIUC the reasons are different. OCD sufferers engage in compulsions to reduce anxiety, produced probably by insufficient Serotonin. Aspergers have difficulty processing information, and use rituals to help deal with the overload.

	17-05-2005 19:05									#33
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Its BS. This is just prozac nation crap.

Have you ever read Prozac Nation?

	17-05-2005 19:22									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I am dating someone who was (quite recently) clinically diagnosed with it. I can attest that it's a real syndrome that cannot be accounted for through mere individuality or human variation. Beyond that, the only description I can suggest is "confusing".

Thanks for the read, Colon.

	17-05-2005 19:29									#35
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark IIUC the reasons are different. OCD sufferers engage in compulsions to reduce anxiety, produced probably by insufficient Serotonin. Aspergers have difficulty processing information, and use rituals to help deal with the overload.

So they are the same behavior but different motivations for doing the behavior?

	17-05-2005 20:03									#36
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin So they are the same behavior but different motivations for doing the behavior?

No, Aspergers has a number of other symptoms besides compulsive behavior. Basically Aspergers is a milder form of Autism.

from the link in the OP:

"Autism is the most widely recognized pervasive developmental disorder (PDD). Other diagnostic concepts with features somewhat similar to autism have been less intensively studied, and their validity, apart from autism, is more controversial. One of these conditions, termed Asperger syndrome (AS) was originally described by Hans Asperger (1944, see Frith's translation, 1991), who provided an account of a number of cases whose clinical features resembled Kanner's (1943) description of autism (e.g., problems with social interaction and communication, and circumscribed and idiosyncratic patterns of interest). However, Asperger's description differed from Kanner's in that speech was less commonly delayed, motor deficits were more common, the onset appeared to be somewhat later, and all the initial cases occurred only in boys. Asperger also suggested that similar problems could be observed in family members, particularly fathers. "

	17-05-2005 20:06									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Aspergers is the pc way of saying loner geek...

	17-05-2005 20:08									#38
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Japher Aspergers is the pc way of saying loner geek...

It's not a 1:1 thing. I am a loner geek, but I don't have Asperger's.

	17-05-2005 20:09									#39
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Its BS. This is just prozac nation crap. Everyone seems to believe they are suffering from a syndrome these days when all they really need is a good swift kick up the arse and they'd be right as rain.

I'm inclined to agree with you. Whilst Aspergers, OCD etcetc are genuine syndromes, they tend to be adopted as labels by every disaffected young adult in the western world as an excuse/ defining feautre or whatever.

Having been in an on/off relationship with someone suffering genuine manic depression and OCD, it annoys me in the extreme when so many people I speak to are convinced mood swings mean mental illness, short attention span needs medication, and that they are all clinically depressed.

90% of the time it's self indulgent bollocks, and certainly does no favours for the poor sods who do actually have a genuine condition.

	17-05-2005 20:10									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: It's not a 1:1 thing. I am a loner geek, but I don't have Asperger's.

That's because you haven't been properly diagnosed.

	17-05-2005 20:19									#41
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Japher That's because you haven't been properly diagnosed.

Fascinating, but my social interaction patterns and my knowledge acquisition patterns do not match those of someone with Asperger's. In company, I am a drama queen, and I tend to be a jack-of-all-trades when it comes to facts. I am sure I have a disorder or two of my own, but AS ain't one of them.

	17-05-2005 20:23									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: social interaction patterns and my knowledge acquisition patterns

eh?

	17-05-2005 20:28									#43
	Inflate your Upload Space

also, most things arent really considered disorders till they become disfunction. A doctor once told someone I know, that if you feel compelled to go to check that the oven is off 2 times every night after you go to bed, and you can live with that, thats NOT OCD (though it may result from the same underlying physiology, and may be genetically related) but if you have to go check 20 times a night, and you arent getting any sleep, than it IS OCD.

I think the same is true for Aspergers. There is probably a point where some inner focus, and some tendency to odd interests, is quite functional, and in fact is very socially useful. Its been noted that there seems to be a high rate of Aspergers among children in Silicon Valley - presumably many of the parents have some genetic tendency in that direction, but in them its expressed in ways that are functional. If this were not the case, how would syndromes like this come to exist, from an evolutionary perspective? My sense is that most psychiatric disorders are exaggerated forms of personality traits that have some survival value.

	17-05-2005 21:18									#44
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Its BS. This is just prozac nation crap. Everyone seems to believe they are suffering from a syndrome these days when all they really need is a good swift kick up the arse and they'd be right as rain.

As a person with Aspergers and ADHD I find this offensive. I do think medication is overprescribed to the milder forms of ADHD and Aspergers, but they are legitmite disorders. It is because of some people blaming every mental problen on bad parents/bad upbringing (which is totally incorect, I had quite good parents) that I cringe when people refuse to accept that there are genentic influences behavior.

	17-05-2005 21:19									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I think that a certain Mr Spink suffers from this disorder. I am not being nasty here but several years of observation of him lead me to this conclusion...

	17-05-2005 21:20									#46
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Mmmm, prozac nation...sounds like my kind of nation

	17-05-2005 21:21									#47
	Remove this text

asperger's implies loner geek, not the other way round.

	17-05-2005 21:28									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Other bizarre traits and fixations of his too...

	17-05-2005 23:28									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

In PH you find all disturbances united

	18-05-2005 01:00									#50
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Er, AH, I too have Asperger's and I regret to inform you that you're an ignorant twit. It exists, and furthermore it affects your life so fundamentally that the idea of it as a disease actually makes me uneasy. If I were to be "cured" of Asperger's it would basically erase my personality. I view and interpret the world differently from the normal way. Now get in the uninformed BSers' timeout cage with Fez, Thorn and PA.

AS bears only the most superficial resemblance to OCD insofar as both tend to involve highly ritualized behavior and difficulties coping with change. AS and other autism spectrum disorders have a slew of other symptoms, often including difficulty reading nonverbal forms of communication (body language, facial expression, tone of voice), a tendency to literalism and clumsiness, a rigid sense of morality or ethics, hypersensitivity to any or all of the five senses, and a peculiarly narrow focus of interest.

For example, Odin just will not shut the hell up about evolution, and my dad is fascinated by orchids and, since becoming diabetic, diabetes. Typically an aspie develops an encyclopedic knowledge of every aspect of one particular subject and learns to rattle off facts and statistics. My stats professor this past semester didn't say so but was obviously autistic to some degree, and his insane love of number-crunching and mathematical identities is a huge help to his job. I'm an odd case; probably because my AS is so mild (I can almost pass for normal, except extended socializing makes me crack up), I have no particular obsession that I or others have noticed.

	18-05-2005 01:13									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Elok Er, AH, I too have Asperger's and I regret to inform you that you're an ignorant twit. It exists, and furthermore it affects your life so fundamentally that the idea of it as a disease actually makes me uneasy. If I were to be "cured" of Asperger's it would basically erase my personality. I view and interpret the world differently from the normal way. Now get in the uninformed BSers' timeout cage with Fez, Thorn and PA. AS bears only the most superficial resemblance to OCD insofar as both tend to involve highly ritualized behavior and difficulties coping with change. AS and other autism spectrum disorders have a slew of other symptoms, often including difficulty reading nonverbal forms of communication (body language, facial expression, tone of voice), a tendency to literalism and clumsiness, a rigid sense of morality or ethics, hypersensitivity to any or all of the five senses, and a peculiarly narrow focus of interest. For example, Odin just will not shut the hell up about evolution, and my dad is fascinated by orchids and, since becoming diabetic, diabetes. Typically an aspie develops an encyclopedic knowledge of every aspect of one particular subject and learns to rattle off facts and statistics. My stats professor this past semester didn't say so but was obviously autistic to some degree, and his insane love of number-crunching and mathematical identities is a huge help to his job. I'm an odd case; probably because my AS is so mild (I can almost pass for normal, except extended socializing makes me crack up), I have no particular obsession that I or others have noticed.

thank you for that eloquent post Elok.

Has anyone here read Temple Grandin's book on her life? She is also a high functioning person with Aspergers with a successful life, and a different personality. Ive read parts of the book.

	18-05-2005 01:16									#52
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Er, AH, I too have Asperger's and I regret to inform you that you're an ignorant twit.

WooooaaaaaaaW!

Bet you couldn't say that to his face.

	18-05-2005 01:26									#53
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

No he couldn't

	18-05-2005 01:33									#54
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Aspergers is not a disease. It is a way of life. The only way that it is even a "disorder" in the remote sense is because the majority of society is more social and different from us; thus, it can have disadvantages too.

It's not a crutch, as some people such as idiots such as AH would say. It exists, period. It affects my personality up to the point where I probably think completely different than most of you.

To the "normal" people - do you read encyclopedias for fun? Do you have an obsessive thirst for knowledge in a particular subject for no real reason at all? Do you not understand what the PRH other people are talking about, or can't even begin to comprehend what they are feeling? Don't understand social skills, feel incredibly stressed in crowded or rowdy areas up to the point where you feel like you must run away? You don't? Well, that's how I think.

As a side fact, all throughout all of school, I had never had any friends. PRH, not even that. Look at how you people treated me years ago in Apolyton. It was more than merely me being immature - it was also because I didn't know how to communicate with people effectively.

It's not a matter of "BS" or anything like that because it truely exists - I truely do not understand most people, nor know how to communicate.

Yet I wouldn't trade it for the world. It has made me, me. I love learning, and have an incredible thirst for knowledge in a way that even most science majors would find unhealthy. I honestly don't know anyone my age who derives physics equations for fun.

By the way - the "crutch" argument - it's not true, even in its regular fallicious sense. Simply put, AS and other disorders arn't meant to be an excuse for the way a person is meant to be. It's meant to be a wa y of expressing how a person is. You cannot simply generalize disorders such as OCD, Aspergers, ADD, et cetera. It is meant to show how it is different from an average "norm" in society (Which in itself is artifical.) Once this comparation is shown, it is possible to improve the skills manually. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it is real. PRH, it's discrimination, through and through, and bigotry, to deny the existance of these disorders.

	18-05-2005 01:42									#55
	Support Apolyton

No Bill. It's a disorder. It's not normal. Do you reproduce and drink beer with mates? No.

	18-05-2005 01:44									#56
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Bill3000 Aspergers is not a disease. It is a way of life. The only way that it is even a "disorder" in the remote sense is because the majority of society is more social and different from us; thus, it can have disadvantages too. It's not a crutch, as some people such as idiots such as AH would say. It exists, period. It affects my personality up to the point where I probably think completely different than most of you. To the "normal" people - do you read encyclopedias for fun? Do you have an obsessive thirst for knowledge in a particular subject for no real reason at all? Do you not understand what the PRH other people are talking about, or can't even begin to comprehend what they are feeling? Don't understand social skills, feel incredibly stressed in crowded or rowdy areas up to the point where you feel like you must run away? You don't? Well, that's how I think. As a side fact, all throughout all of school, I had never had any friends. PRH, not even that. Look at how you people treated me years ago in Apolyton. It was more than merely me being immature - it was also because I didn't know how to communicate with people effectively. It's not a matter of "BS" or anything like that because it truely exists - I truely do not understand most people, nor know how to communicate. Yet I wouldn't trade it for the world. It has made me, me. I love learning, and have an incredible thirst for knowledge in a way that even most science majors would find unhealthy. I honestly don't know anyone my age who derives physics equations for fun. By the way - the "crutch" argument - it's not true, even in its regular fallicious sense. Simply put, AS and other disorders arn't meant to be an excuse for the way a person is meant to be. It's meant to be a wa y of expressing how a person is. You cannot simply generalize disorders such as OCD, Aspergers, ADD, et cetera. It is meant to show how it is different from an average "norm" in society (Which in itself is artifical.) Once this comparation is shown, it is possible to improve the skills manually. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it is real. PRH, it's discrimination, through and through, and bigotry, to deny the existance of these disorders.

	18-05-2005 01:49									#57
	Suffering from ads?

I sometimes read encyclopedias for fun, rarely.

I collect knowledge in certain areas.

Nothing to do with Aspergers anyway. I am socially challeneged now and again, but only when in bad mood.

Borderline?

	18-05-2005 01:56									#58
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Why lying to myself? There are times when I feel everything's alright, with friends, girlfriend and stuff like that, At other times I feel like I'm totally wrong in this place. "Normal" depression as depicted in "Creep" or true disorder? I've often considered having some medic look at it and give a judgement so I can understand it. Put it off all the time. Having someone have a look at it will be done, eventually. But not now. There's a bird thing in the making

	18-05-2005 01:57									#59
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It's more than what I am saying, Ecth. It's rather hard to completely explain, bcause it can be quite complicated to generalize. The generalizations is part of the problem; say something like "ADD is the inability to pay attention" to people, and they'd say, "that's it?" But it's much more than that, a lot more complicated - Aspergers is same to this.

You could always try a diagnosis test, but you can't just do it for yourself like that.

quote: No Bill. It's a disorder. It's not normal. Do you reproduce and drink beer with mates? No.

Ah, but what is normal, grasshoppa? Yes, that's why it is a disorder, but in the end, the concept of a disorder is purely a relativistic one. If society as a whole would be more akin to Aspergers, then it would be the jocks and such that would be considered a "disorder." It's merely a reference point, and in the end, it's no better than what it is without the tradeoffs. I have advantages that you don't. This surely is different from, say, a disease; I seriously doubt people would say that the flu gives an advantage to people.

Is it genetic? Most likely; my dad has autistic tendencies and there are patterns of Aspergers and other autistic traits in my family.

	18-05-2005 01:57									#60
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

when something is a "disorder" and when it isnt gets just little too theological for me. I mean I understand the point - Peter Kramer in "Listening to Prozac" discussed the question of OCD - suggesting that in an earlier age, where more work involved clerical type details, and less emphasis on adapting quickly to change, OCD was much more functional. I guess each person has to decide for themselves what about themselves is "them" and what creates so much pain they want to "fix" it. I also suspect that those of us whose personal experience is more with things like ADD, OCD or depression cant necessarily understand Aspergers from that experience, as Aspergers seems more connected to core aspects of personality.