22-05-2005 21:22									#211
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom It's a joke, fer Crissakes.

	22-05-2005 21:29									#212
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker The study you posted didn't differentiate between legal and illegal immigrants. You said leaving the border "unprotected" encouraged diseases to be spread. But those diseases can be brought in by either legal or illegal immigrants, it doesn't really matter who it is. Our own citizens can even bring them in, as has been mentioned with the AIDS cases.

Legal immigrants are required to be free of communicable diseases before getting in. The study doesn't differentiate between the two because we can not really ask people their immigration status in the country. And none of this diminishes the need for enforcement.

	22-05-2005 21:36									#213
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Your study says the way to combat the problem is :

quote: Continued efforts to tailor local TB control strategies to the foreign-born community and commitment to the global TB battle are essential.

It doesn't even mention illegal immigration and "enforcement" specifically. You and whatever anti-immigrant website/author you found the link from just slapped that interpretation on afterwards.

	22-05-2005 22:18									#214
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Can we at least all agree that it is better to have legal immigraints instead of illegal immigraints? The fact that it gives said immigraints legal rights which they can use against abusive employers, that it gets them out of the cash economy and into a regular tax status, that it costs less for law enforcement, etc... shows why it is better.

My suggestion is to have a free flow of labor between the NAFTA countries if all three can agree on a unified border enforcement agency whose job it would be to stop the smuggling of drugs, people, and other illegal activities along the collective borders with the rest of the world. That would effectively legalize the current illegal immigraints and make future movement of people inside North America easy and legal while still adressing concerns northerns have about drug smuggling, etc...

	22-05-2005 22:25									#215
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Advocacy for protection of illegal immigrants is ridiculous in the first place.

They're called ILLEGAL immigrants because they are violating laws. Do we debate whether or not thieves should be allowed to keep whatever property they steal? Do we debate whether or not rapists should be allowed to rape?

No, we don't, because mainstream society dictates that these and other crimes are simply wrong. So why do we have such a drawn-out debate on criminals who violate our immigration laws?

Let me preempt those who would bring up the analogy of the civil righs movement of the 1950s and 60s, and who would say, "So in other words, because black activists and their white allies were violating segregation laws they should never have gained any social support and acceptance for their cause?"

I would say in response, that if prohibiting a certain number of people from legally immigrating into our country is on the same level of repugnance and injustice as Jim Crow laws were, then we do need to reexamine our immigration laws.

So then explain to me why our current immigration laws are repugnant and unjustified.

	22-05-2005 23:26									#216
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Your study says the way to combat the problem is : It doesn't even mention illegal immigration and "enforcement" specifically. You and whatever anti-immigrant website/author you found the link from just slapped that interpretation on afterwards.

It mentions a control strategy, what do you think that means?

	23-05-2005 03:56									#217
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Advocacy for protection of illegal immigrants is ridiculous in the first place. They're called ILLEGAL immigrants because they are violating laws. Do we debate whether or not thieves should be allowed to keep whatever property they steal? Do we debate whether or not rapists should be allowed to rape? So then explain to me why our current immigration laws are repugnant and unjustified.

What's repugnant and unjustified is that you compare illegal immigrants to theives or rapists.

	23-05-2005 04:12									#218
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha It mentions a control strategy, what do you think that means?

Since it's a medical journal, I'd say increasing testing and treatment options to the local foreign born community.

But again you are going to slap on your crap afterwards.

	23-05-2005 04:17									#219
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Some of you guys aren't going to be happy until the border with Mexico looks like this:

	23-05-2005 04:50									#220
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Since it's a medical journal, I'd say increasing testing and treatment options to the local foreign born community. But again you are going to slap on your crap afterwards.

So are you going to call all illegals in to get testing?

	23-05-2005 04:54									#221
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen What's repugnant and unjustified is that you compare illegal immigrants to theives or rapists.

A full 25% of our current Prison pop., is now Illegal Mexican. Quoted by CNN two week ago. And btw they are not there because of illegal status. They are there because of crimes commited in the US.

	23-05-2005 05:00									#222
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen So, Spanish people aren't white?

In my part of Calif., it is the young Mexican kids who are claiming they are not white. I work at a Middle School and we have around 300 or more Latino kids there, and they will get mad at you, if you say they are white.

	23-05-2005 05:02									#223
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha So are you going to call all illegals in to get testing?

Yes, I am calling 1-800-CRACKER as we speak.

	23-05-2005 05:28									#224
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quote: Originally posted by Joseph A full 25% of our current Prison pop., is now Illegal Mexican. Quoted by CNN two week ago. And btw they are not there because of illegal status. They are there because of crimes commited in the US.

No, that number is for all non-US citizens in the Federal system. Because of laws enacted in the mid 1990's, the INS is now REQUIRED to hold all illegals it catches until they get a hearing.

When you look at the total prison population, which includes state prison systems, the percentage of non-US citizens is only 4.5%.

The 30% is famous because Lou Dobbs tosses it around all the time.

	23-05-2005 06:22									#225
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Some of you guys aren't going to be happy until the border with Mexico looks like this:

What would the dimensions of this red X be?

	23-05-2005 06:24									#226
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Attachment: grenzanlagen.jpg
This has been downloaded 35 time(s).

	23-05-2005 07:45									#227
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quote: Originally posted by Joseph In my part of Calif., it is the young Mexican kids who are claiming they are not white. I work at a Middle School and we have around 300 or more Latino kids there, and they will get mad at you, if you say they are white.

Most Mexicans are not white. They are a mixture of white and Indian while Spanish, the ethnic group in question, are white. Or at least mostly white depending upon if you believe North Africans are white or not. That could effect things since a tiny minority of Spaniards have partial North African blood.

	23-05-2005 09:58									#228
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen What's repugnant and unjustified is that you compare illegal immigrants to theives or rapists.

By definition, a criminal is someone who violates a law, yes??

	23-05-2005 10:18									#229
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Most Mexicans are not white. They are a mixture of white and Indian while Spanish, the ethnic group in question, are white. Or at least mostly white depending upon if you believe North Africans are white or not. That could effect things since a tiny minority of Spaniards have partial North African blood.

In a nutshell

10% White (Mostly Spanish but also German)
60% Mestizo (in varying degrees of course)
30% Indian (ethnically pure)

	23-05-2005 10:19									#230
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun By definition, a criminal is someone who violates a law, yes??

Then if all criminals are the same, why isn't there just one sentence for everyone who commits a crime?

	23-05-2005 10:22									#231
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What kind of a question is that?


How does the fact that there are varying degrees of punishment for different types of crimes, negate recognition of the fact that if something is illegal, it's defined as a crime?

	23-05-2005 10:22									#232
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quote: Originally posted by Joseph In my part of Calif., it is the young Mexican kids who are claiming they are not white. I work at a Middle School and we have around 300 or more Latino kids there, and they will get mad at you, if you say they are white.

Mexicans are NOT Spanish. That most dumbass gringos find it convenient to call everyone of latin/hispanic descent "Spanish" does not mean its the right term.

	23-05-2005 10:24									#233
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun What kind of a question is that? How does the fact that there are varying degrees of punishment for different types of crimes, negate recognition of the fact that if something is illegal, it's defined as a crime?

Because just as there are different types of crimes, there are different types of criminals.

Btw, would you agree that your entire country is founded by the principle of illegality since well, declaring independence from Britain was kinda illegal itself? Guess the founding fathers are just as bad as the thieves and rapists you lump all criminals into

	23-05-2005 10:30									#234
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Because just as there are different types of crimes, there are different types of criminals. Btw, would you agree that your entire country is founded by the principle of illegality since well, declaring independence from Britain was kinda illegal itself? Guess the founding fathers are just as bad as the thieves and rapists you lump all criminals into

If you can explain to me how regulation of immigration into a country is unjustified just as Jim Crow laws were unjustified and anti-gay laws are unjustified, then explain it to me, please. I have been known to change my opinion after hearing out a well-reasoned argument.

For instance, are the current regulations of immigration into United States inherently racist/ethnocentric? If so, then the regulations would most certainly be unjustified.

	23-05-2005 10:39									#235
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen In a nutshell 10% White (Mostly Spanish but also German) 60% Mestizo (in varying degrees of course) 30% Indian (ethnically pure)

I think we all understand that.


But how can you get upset about us calling Mexicans Spanish and not care about Fox using the work "black" ?

	23-05-2005 11:17									#236
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun If you can explain to me how regulation of immigration into a country is unjustified just as Jim Crow laws were unjustified and anti-gay laws are unjustified, then explain it to me, please. I have been known to change my opinion after hearing out a well-reasoned argument. For instance, are the current regulations of immigration into United States inherently racist/ethnocentric? If so, then the regulations would most certainly be unjustified.

What the hell does that have to do with what I'm asking you to explain?

	23-05-2005 11:19									#237
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I think we all understand that. But how can you get upset about us calling Mexicans Spanish and not care about Fox using the work "black" ?

Well for starters, we're NOT Spanish. Would you not care if foreigners called every English-speaker no matter what country an Englishman?

That has nothing to do with the black comment. Blacks are blacks, Fox didn't label any other ethnicity, race or nationality "blacks".

	23-05-2005 11:49									#238
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It's just semantics.

Relax amigo.


Are you offended by the word, "Hispanic"?

It's very similiar to the black comment, sorry if you can't see that.

	23-05-2005 12:28									#239
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker It's just semantics. Relax amigo.

Like I said, if you people had no beef at being called "Englishmen", I wouldn't mind myself

quote: Are you offended by the word, "Hispanic"?

Not at all, we ARE Hispanic. And ****ing proud of it too.

quote: It's very similiar to the black comment, sorry if you can't see that.

I think you're not the one who's quite seeing that. The black comment caused ire not because of the word, but because of what it implied: that black people were on the lower ladders of society. Frankly, I do not see the racist implication since it WAS true. The black community was not offended by being called "blacks" or some other incorrect label which is what you are suggesting.

	23-05-2005 12:53									#240
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Nope, you are missing the big picture.

1) The black community was offended by Fox's comment, their offense is based on their own cultural standards.

2) You were offended by the Spanish comment, by your own cultural standards.

When you offend someone because of their own cultural standards, it is best to error on the OTHER person's standards, not your own.

So, you can't have it both ways.

You can't tell me black people shouldn't be offended but then turn around and tell me something that was an innocent generalization offends YOU.