02-06-2005 01:06									#511
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Yeah, it was nothing - you insisted that the gold ore which required more labor to extract the gold was more valuable.

On a cost basis. Of course the price is the same in a market, and the use value is the same.

quote: Wants and needs are too vague and too variable in scope to be treated by any "science."

That's why economics is a social science. You make scientific arguments. That doesn't mean you can be as precise as say physics.

	02-06-2005 01:13									#512
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious On a cost basis. Of course the price is the same in a market.

Screw cost - what counts is the gross margin.

quote: That's why economics is a social science. You make scientific arguments. That doesn't mean you can be as precise as say physics.

Of course not, but you can't make scientific arguments based on vaguely defined terms.

	02-06-2005 01:17									#513
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Screw cost - what counts is the gross margin.

Ah yes, surplus value is central to the argument.

quote: Of course not, but you can't make scientific arguments based on vaguely defined terms.

So don't define things vaguely.

	02-06-2005 01:18									#514
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious So don't define things vaguely.

When you talk about "wants" and "needs" you're inherently vague.

	02-06-2005 01:22									#515
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat When you talk about "wants" and "needs" you're inherently vague.

Vague is a relative term.

Oh and this should answer your question regarding the gold mines.

quote: But the value of a commodity represents human labour in the abstract, the expenditure of human labour in general. And just as in society, a general or a banker plays a great part, but mere man, on the other hand, a very shabby part,[14] so here with mere human labour. It is the expenditure of simple labour power, i.e., of the labour power which, on an average, apart from any special development, exists in the organism of every ordinary individual. Simple average labour, it is true, varies in character in different countries and at different times, but in a particular society it is given. Skilled labour counts only as simple labour intensified, or rather, as multiplied simple labour, a given quantity of skilled being considered equal to a greater quantity of simple labour.

From Part I of Das Kapital.

	02-06-2005 01:25									#516
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Vague is a relative term.

Yeah, vague is vague,

quote: Oh and this should answer your question regarding the gold mines.

I knew the answer about the gold mines.

	02-06-2005 01:30									#517
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Yeah, vague is vague,

No. Relative and vague are not synonyms Mr. Genious. Social science can not be precise. However if you can establish that value exists beyond market price then you can expand your knowledge about the workings of things and create more value. You don't have to know everything about value to get more. The more you know however, the more you can get.

quote: I knew the answer about the gold mines.

You think you know everything.

	02-06-2005 01:30									#518
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MtG, this is over 500 posts. Should I start another or let this one continue?

	02-06-2005 01:34									#519
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apparently communism is hard to define.

	02-06-2005 02:00									#520
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer MtG, this is over 500 posts. Should I start another or let this one continue?

Ahh, I'll kill it, and you can do what you want.