19-05-2005 04:14									#31
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quote: Consider it thus: Company President drinks a bottle of beer at family BBQ. Company President snort a line at family BBQ. Which is worse?

One is more socially acceptable, but technically the difference is not all that huge. Being high on coke isn't much different from being high on alcohol (or even caffeine, in large quantities).

	19-05-2005 04:31									#32
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Aye drug testing just affects the recreational user who still realises that work and play don't mix.

Also the socially acceptable argument is bunk from the beginning

	19-05-2005 04:35									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Flip McWho Also the socially acceptable argument is bunk from the beginning

Yes.

	19-05-2005 05:00									#34
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Faking the test is fraud and fraud is illegal. I have a problem with the tests themselves, even though I don't do illegal drugs anymore.

How if cheating on the test fraud, unless they specifically make you sign something saying you do not do drugs?

	19-05-2005 06:02									#35
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quote: Company President drinks a bottle of beer at family BBQ. Company President snort a line at family BBQ. Which is worse?

Neither in my opinion.

Sorry, but drugs are drugs regardless of whether they are "legal" and "socially acceptable."

	19-05-2005 06:27									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Vesayen How if cheating on the test fraud, unless they specifically make you sign something saying you do not do drugs?

If not because you sign a form allowing your company to take a test then because you are creating false information and presenting that to the company as a basis for hiring you. It's every bit as much of fraud as if you lied about graduating from college.

	19-05-2005 06:28									#37
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Hey guess what? My brother is an ER physician and he's addicted to narcotics! Next time you get the steering wheel of your car stuck in your chest he's the man you want to visit right? Hey doc, I'm in bad shape, I sure hope you're not in need of a fix right now or too high to see straight, huh?

The people who hire you, are served by you, depend on you, need you have the right to be assured that they're not misplacing their trust onto the shoulders of a drunk or a druggie.

	19-05-2005 06:30									#38
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Yeah, but how is the public served by making me take a piss test to work on someone's website? And how is needing a fix different from the DTs?

	19-05-2005 06:36									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Hey guess what? My brother is an ER physician and he's addicted to narcotics! Next time you get the steering wheel of your car stuck in your chest he's the man you want to visit right? Hey doc, I'm in bad shape, I sure hope you're not in need of a fix right now or too high to see straight, huh? The people who hire you, are served by you, depend on you, need you have the right to be assured that they're not misplacing their trust onto the shoulders of a drunk or a druggie.

Drugs have recreational uses. You think the world is made of a) dangerous drug addicts and b) pure abstainers?

If there was something to be worried about, it would be that a doctor could believe that...

	19-05-2005 06:38									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Flip McWho Aye drug testing just affects the recreational user who still realises that work and play don't mix.

Thats who's getting hit, the chances are a 'proper' druggie wouldn't even make it to, or past, the interview stage when applying for a jpb.

Someone who has the odd line of coke at the weekend when he's not working will be fired by a guy who puts away a bottle of Scotch every night when he has work in the morning.

	19-05-2005 06:55									#41
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever Thats who's getting hit, the chances are a 'proper' druggie wouldn't even make it to, or past, the interview stage when applying for a jpb. Someone who has the odd line of coke at the weekend when he's not working will be fired by a guy who puts away a bottle of Scotch every night when he has work in the morning.

If you're a recreational user you might want to simply not do that line of coke the weekend before your big interview. If you can't control yourself or can't think that far ahead.......
The guy who can't keep his hand off the bottle of scotch every night will breathe on his examiner when he gets his pre-employment physical. Since the employer is paying for that exam the examiner is not obligated to keep the examinee's problem confidential, and he will note it on the physical. I've done this more than once. If you come into my office for a pre-employment you'd better not chug-a-lug beforehand.

	19-05-2005 06:57									#42
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The problem is that some drugs like marijuana last in the body for a few months... and besides, if you do some coke on Saturday night, you can clearly have an interview Monday morning and the guy would never know about it without a test.

	19-05-2005 07:02									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove If you're a recreational user you might want to simply not do that line of coke the weekend before your big interview. If you can't control yourself or can't think that far ahead.......

I was really talking about the kind of 'on the spot' checks they do once in a while after you've got the job.

You know, boss who drinks himself to sleep everynight calls in a guy who got caught with coke in his system and asks him 'have you got a substance abuse problem'

	19-05-2005 07:52									#44
	Tired of ads?

Aye weed hangs in your system for many months, which effectively stops people from taking interviews for jobs (that have drug testing) till they've been "clean" for however many months it is (i've heard six) which is bunk.

For sure people do have a right to know that the doctor operating on them is not gonna accidently give you a sex change because he swallowed a bottle of alcohol the evening before or snorted a line of coke the night before, thats fair enough. But again it shouldn't punish the recreational user. The doctor that snorts a line of coke every other now and again isn't gonna harm anyone when he goes back to work, unless he's incomptent to start with.

Also where do you draw the line for companies that are allowed to do drug testing? Doctors and professionals like this I can respect the need to drug test. But if this drug testing gets too mainstream then you could have companies where it makes no difference whether the employee users (for example supermarket work (the one I work at is a prime example, if you invoked drug testing their half the employees would end up getting fired, even though it doesn't affect their jobs in the least) and people losing jobs for no good reason.

You will get abusers no matter the substance, that much should be obvious. However to punish the recreational users because some people can't handle their habit is totally rude.