19-05-2005 21:40									#31
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quote: No, your point was a crock of crap. There are more people with jobs now versus then. End of story.

You're so full of ****. There are more people without jobs now versus then.

You ****ing sophist.

	19-05-2005 21:43									#32
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Hmmmm.... maybe this discussion should be toned down a notch...

Let's discuss the topic and remove the personal stuff

	19-05-2005 21:46									#33
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Hey! I winked!!!

	19-05-2005 21:58									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Hey! I winked!!!

That wasn't enough. You should also have attributed the or smiley to your post

	19-05-2005 22:01									#35
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Spif, do you get FOX news in Fwance or do you have to put up with the Communist News Network's lefty dis-information campaign?

	19-05-2005 22:11									#36
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I don't think we have Fox. Last time I peeked at the American channels (quite some time ago) on sat, I remember we had CNN, NBC and Bloomberg (and non-info channels such as Travel or ESPN). I'm not an expert however, since I almost never watch TV.

The mainstream TV-radio media tends to be very supportive of the political establishment, center-left and center right. The 1st channel is more pro-right, and the 2nd channel used to be more pro-left. But in any case, they're never too harsh against the establishment, and the 2nd (public) channel has stopped its pro-left leaning a few months after Chirac's victory. I guess the government cleaned house.

The printed press is on the center-left more often than not., but they have far less impact than TV.

	19-05-2005 22:56									#37
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Too bad, FOX is fair and balanced, unlike CNN which is so far left I have to readjust the picture in order to watch.

Anyway, go with the 1st channel.

	19-05-2005 23:07									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Anyway, go with the 1st channel.

Sorry. I can't stand their reeking demagogery.

	19-05-2005 23:33									#39
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YOu see, this is why Fox isn't even News. You don't take a person, then bash them in what seems to be an opinion piece while it says news in the screen the same time. BEcause, then it suddenly becomes a fact in meathead minds, and that's not good, because it's not a fact yet. News are supposed to deliver facts though, so it gets confusing, which is not what news is about.

If you see these and do not have any weird feeling about it, it means you have no hope. Sorry, that's the way it is.

	19-05-2005 23:39									#40
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Pekka, it's important to get your news from more than one source. For instance I listen to Rush as well.

	20-05-2005 00:09									#41
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Yes, but what are you trying to say. I know what you are saying, but it doesn't really change what I said already. Opinions != news. Opinions are part of what is News Entertainment, however News Entertainment != News.

IF there should be opinions etc mixed in, it should be.. there should be clear warnings and signs and tune playing and text saying 'AND NOW from News to Entertainment, let's see what Mr X has to say about...' ... etc.

TO mix it up smoothly is .. simply a crime. A moral crime. And I realize many do this, not just Fox. Fox is just the worst of all. You have a problem when you have to say you have leftist news and right wing news. wtf is that? There IS no left or right news. There is just news, what happens in the world isn't seen through glasses of some political ideology. They just happen, then they are just reported, period, end of story. THAT is news.

So if someone CLAIMS to be news, there should be mandatory... signs and clear ones too that says this is news, and now to entertainment. The most worrying part is that I have to actually say these trivial things to bunch of smart folks. Makes me think what the commoners think of this. Makes me believe they don't. think.

	20-05-2005 00:31									#42
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DanS always clouds the issue and tries to use obscure stats to show that the US economy is better now then in 2000.

and now bush wants to slap tariffs on china. so much for being a free trader. so much for being for open markets and free trade. just like reagan, republicans have no moral values, no principals. everything is negociable, everyone is useable. they play both ends against the middle.

	20-05-2005 00:58									#43
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commoners?

that's elitist leftist thinking for ya...


you know, all of what you are saying should be leveled at cnn....but i guess biased reporting was ok when it was in favor of YOUR views...

	20-05-2005 01:05									#44
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Pekka is definitely not left wing, and I don't think he sees himself as an intellectual elite.

	20-05-2005 01:19									#45
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Spiff calls it right.

LOOKS like someone just totally bombed themselves by not getting the one point I was making. Such is the life of commoners.

	20-05-2005 01:21									#46
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Cavuto does do opinion pieces...

	20-05-2005 02:37									#47
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Nope. The deficit will be probably about $350 billion this year, well below last year's deficit of about $410 billion. A good economy. More jobs. Lower deficit. Cavuto's pessimism isn't warranted.

So what's the national debt now? And how much of the current budget is interest payments on that debt? And how much of those interest payments are based on debt for a five year or lesser term? How large is the national debt projected to be when Bush's successor next manages to balance the budget?

Not that I'm pessimistic, I'm making money hand over fist in this indecisive, volatile, floundering market.

	20-05-2005 02:37									#48
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quote: Originally posted by vee4473 commoners? that's elitist leftist thinking for ya... you know, all of what you are saying should be leveled at cnn....but i guess biased reporting was ok when it was in favor of YOUR views...

Personally, I refer to them as "peasants"

	20-05-2005 02:49									#49
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quote: So what's the national debt now? And how much of the current budget is interest payments on that debt? And how much of those interest payments are based on debt for a five year or lesser term? How large is the national debt projected to be when Bush's successor next manages to balance the budget?

Do your own research!

(p.s., I am skeptical of the precision of long-term projections, demonstrated by the fact that the deficit numbers were so far off even for the next fiscal year. You have to do projections for management purposes, but bring your shaker of salt along.)

	20-05-2005 02:53									#50
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Actually, you're better off investing in a salt mine.


BTW, they were all rhetorical questions.

	20-05-2005 03:09									#51
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@ Dan's fact-butchering. It is because people like him that I don't trust economists, they are all neo-liberal fanatics nowdays, it is like a religion to them. Keynesians have become an endagered species it seems.

	20-05-2005 06:18									#52
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DanS (and others):

Deficit projections are crap because Congress made them that way. The Congressional Budget Office used to do reasonably sophisticated deficit projections. This was irritating to Congress because a) they could not be explained in 10 second sound bites, and b) they gored political oxen on both the left and the right. A few years ago Congress, in its infinite wisdom, ordered the Congressional Budget Office to do a very simplified version of deficit projection: just draw a straight line through the last three years of deficits. Under this "method", when the deficit is getting better it appears to be getting better as far out as the forecast goes; when the deficit is getting worse, it appears to be getting continually worse; and whenever there is a turning point you appear to have wild swings.

Odin:

Keynesian are justifiably an endangered species becuase their theories did not fit the facts. According to Keynesians, there is an unbreakable tradeoff between inflation and unemployment, known as the Phillips Curve. Low inflation could only be purchased at the cost of high unemployment. Low unemployment woul invariably result in high inflation. The Keynesian model has no explanation whatsoever for the 1970's (high inflation, high unemployment) or the 1990's (low inflation, low unemployment). It was problems such as this which led macroeconomists to integrate the supply side of the economy into their theories.

edit: typos

	20-05-2005 06:45									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia they spend like its going out of style. the spend money like they are drunk alcoholics at a bar needing to get down just one more drink. they spend money like michael jackson. and then they lie, they tell everyone that they are the fiscally responsible party.

Well, that's sorta where they came from, right?

	20-05-2005 06:45									#54
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http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=6337&sequence=0

The US budget deficit was $71 billion in the month of march alone. That's $3 billion more then they had prohected.

quote: CBO estimates that the government incurred a deficit of $235 billion in the first seven months of 2005, which is about $49 billion less than the shortfall recorded for the same period last year. Total receipts through the first seven months of the fiscal year were about $146 billion (or 13.6 percent) higher than those recorded in the same period last year. Outlays have risen by about $97 billion, or 7 percent, CBO estimates.

So things are looking better then last year so far but the deficit for the year through April was $235.

	20-05-2005 06:52									#55
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AS: Yeh, I didn't know the specifics of any change, but they have been obviously unreliable for a while.

Bush's short-term public budget projections seem crafted with an eye toward tactics rather than facts -- i.e., take the heat for high deficits in January and February, then make your Summer and Fall budget push based upon the "better than expected" situation. Surprisingly effective, at least as things stand now.

I suspect that Bush is getting much better projections on a private basis, including long-term projections. But I do not know that for a fact. Also, I have no idea if Congress, or a part of congress, is let in on the secret.

	20-05-2005 07:26									#56
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Bush's short-term public budget projections seem crafted with an eye toward tactics rather than facts -- i.e., take the heat for high deficits in January and February, then make your Summer and Fall budget push based upon the "better than expected" situation. Surprisingly effective, at least as things stand now.

Not that surprising, considering his base.

	20-05-2005 07:48									#57
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the debt is 7.7 trillion USD. it increases by over $1.5 billion USD a day. As a share of population, it is at over $22,000 per person living in the US.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/