01-06-2005 23:36									#451
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Technically the novels are canon, IIRC, but they're not canon most would be familiar with. At least they retain a level of consistency above that of the Star Trek TV series, which are considered canon.

	02-06-2005 00:37									#452
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quote: People aren't going to want to go out of their way to see Clone Wars, which explains why Grevious isn't a complete droid

Um... watching RotS shows that Grevious isn't a complete droid. Which droids have functioning lungs and a heart?

---

As for Anakin's turn, I thought it was fairly convincing given all the cirumstances. We know that Anakin isn't that fond of the Jedi order. He sees them as perpetraying one injustice after another on them. And then when Windu wants to contravene Jedi code to kill Palpatine, he thinks, hey, Palpy was right. The Jedi are out for their own power.

After he kills the Jedi Master, he knows he can't go back. And the only friend he has left is Palpatine... even if he is a Sith, Anakin is now convinced that the Jedi and Sith are two sides of a the same coin, looking for power by that point.

	02-06-2005 00:47									#453
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quote: Um... watching RotS shows that Grevious isn't a complete droid. Which droids have functioning lungs and a heart?

Looked more like just a heart and eyes. In any case, it still doesn't explain why a cyborg coughs. Breathes heavily, deeply, and noisily, sure. But coughing?

---

As far as Anakin's turning... I'll just say this: it could have been handled worse. Story-wise, it's not the worst way of doing it, but dialogue and acting wise, from Anakin? That's what killed it for me.

	02-06-2005 01:02									#454
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui As for Anakin's turn, I thought it was fairly convincing given all the cirumstances. We know that Anakin isn't that fond of the Jedi order. He sees them as perpetraying one injustice after another on them. And then when Windu wants to contravene Jedi code to kill Palpatine, he thinks, hey, Palpy was right. The Jedi are out for their own power. After he kills the Jedi Master, he knows he can't go back. And the only friend he has left is Palpatine... even if he is a Sith, Anakin is now convinced that the Jedi and Sith are two sides of a the same coin, looking for power by that point.

Imran, ever the lawer... It may explain him siding with Palpatine, but it doesn't explain why he becomes evil. And that's not surprising, since the whole theory behind it (that fear leads to anger and anger to evil) is just plain dumb. Sure, it gives a nice oriental mysticism varnish to the movies, but if you think about it, it doesn't make much sense.

Mind you, it would be silly to ask for profound psychological insights in a movie like Star Wars. I'm just trying to figure out why the conversion of Anakin didn't seem plausible for 95% of the viewers.

	02-06-2005 01:46									#455
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quote: It may explain him siding with Palpatine, but it doesn't explain why he becomes evil.

But you explained it with the next sentance you posted .

quote: And that's not surprising, since the whole theory behind it (that fear leads to anger and anger to evil) is just plain dumb. Sure, it gives a nice oriental mysticism varnish to the movies, but if you think about it, it doesn't make much sense.

It may be dumb, but that's how the world in Star Wars works. That's the explination to why he becomes evil. Once you step in the Dark Side, you are usually stuck there and it's all downhill.

	02-06-2005 04:00									#456
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I have to say that it bugs me when a hardcore fan explains a part of the plot by citing various segments from all the books out there and implies that if you would only read the books you would know these things.

I'm not saying anyone here is doing that, but I have seen it on other sites...the star wars site forum is ridiculous...it's like a schoolhouse playground at recess.

Anyway, by doing that, they are admitting that Lucas left huge plot holes in the movies themselves.

You shouldn't have to look up anything in a novel that should be established on screen.

I think the novels should merely be story extensions and forks in the path of the main story.

They shouldn't be the place where somewhat vital on-screen plot lines are explained.

	02-06-2005 04:08									#457
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Well, to be fair, there was a lot of stuff cut out of the movie. Some of the holes may disappear if the uncut version was seen.

I believe the novelization of the movie is based on the uncut version and eliminates some of the unexplained stuff.

	02-06-2005 04:12									#458
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It would be fantastic is Lucas released an uncut extra long version as the DVD, that includes whatever is in the novels that seems to be so important to exlpaining things.


We shall see...

	02-06-2005 04:16									#459
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oh, and one other thing...I know this must sound laughable, but if Lucas felt constrained to include everything, I think he maybe should have stuck one more episode in there somewhere to relax the pace a bit...

so that the prequels wouldn't have seemed so forced.

I know trilogy or sextology (?) is nice for a story, and episodes 1, 2 and 3 fits so nice with 4, 5 and 6..

but in the interest of the damn story, I would have forgiven him if he said he needed one more episode to sort things out.

	02-06-2005 05:07									#460
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quote: Originally posted by vee4473 oh, and one other thing...I know this must sound laughable, but if Lucas felt constrained to include everything, I think he maybe should have stuck one more episode in there somewhere to relax the pace a bit... so that the prequels wouldn't have seemed so forced. I know trilogy or sextology (?) is nice for a story, and episodes 1, 2 and 3 fits so nice with 4, 5 and 6.. but in the interest of the damn story, I would have forgiven him if he said he needed one more episode to sort things out.

He could have basically thrown out tons of ancillary subplot in ep 1 to achieve that same result.

Throw out the pod race, throw out jar jar and the entire gungan species, throw out the entire broken spaceship stranded on tatooine and find some quicker way to introduce anakin perhaps as an older character. Do that and you wouldn't need a 7th episode to relax the pace.

	02-06-2005 05:25									#461
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I agree with the pod race.

When I saw it for the first time, I could not believe how long it seemed...I looked at my watch.

Not sure why he focused on that so much.

It seemed very antithetical to what Star Wars was about.

But, I guess he felt it necessary to establish Anakin's strong Force connection...

way overblown, almost aimed towards kids.


The more I think about it, the more I think that he was just looking to lure kids with Episode 1. eg. jar jar and his cartoon like language.

He seems to have progressed a bit with episode 3 in terms of abandoning the kids and telling the story of a genocidal murderer, but too little too late.


I have recently been thinking that Star Wars is not a childs story at heart, if you think about it.

The whole story is based on the plot line of one group of people (the Sith) destroying an entire race of other people (Jedi) in order to gain power.

Hardly a childs bedtime story, yet Lucas tried to make it so and that is where he faultered.

Despite the burger king commercials and flashy lights etc...the main core of the story is one of genocide.

	02-06-2005 05:26									#462
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and I love Star Wars, I am considered a geek at work because of it.

Just my thoughts

	02-06-2005 07:44									#463
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quote: I agree with the pod race. When I saw it for the first time, I could not believe how long it seemed...I looked at my watch. Not sure why he focused on that so much. It seemed very antithetical to what Star Wars was about. But, I guess he felt it necessary to establish Anakin's strong Force connection... way overblown, almost aimed towards kids. The more I think about it, the more I think that he was just looking to lure kids with Episode 1. eg. jar jar and his cartoon like language.

That was my point earlier, that Lucas wasn't concerned with satisfying the original fans of the series but purposely aiming his movies to a new generation. TPM was aimed at the 8 year-old set, AOTC was aimed at the 11 year-olds, and ROTS was aimed at the 14 year-olds.

	02-06-2005 08:58									#464
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed Okay, here's one comment: All the people explaining away things like the Judicial arm and such... fans, if you will, apologists, if you will...

You saw Judicials right at the start of TPM, they were the Republic Crusier's crew with the uniforms in the cut of the Imperial Navy.

	02-06-2005 23:38									#465
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Lonestar, the problem is, I don't recall them being called "Judicials" at all, nor are they ever revisited in the entire trilogy.

	02-06-2005 23:40									#466
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quote: You saw Judicials right at the start of TPM, they were the Republic Crusier's crew with the uniforms in the cut of the Imperial Navy.

Well, hell, how could anybody have missed that?!

	03-06-2005 06:43									#467
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just got back from finally seeing this thing.

The previews suck, reinforcing my belief that all hollywood movies suck. Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie are both assassins, yet they don't know each of them is an assassin, then they have to assassinate each other.

the other movies didn't look very good either.

and then there was a baby making noise. Luckily the little bastard wasn't crying. There should be adults only theaters. Kid should not be allowed in movie theaters. I can't imagine a 2 year old being exposed to such violence. This is almost as bad as the kids who were in the theater watching Basic Instinct.

Then there was this old guy with an oxygen tank making noise (and not cool noise like Darth Vader). If you can't breathe, you shouldn't be allowed in smoky casinos (all of our movie theaters are in casinos).

and then people talking . Although I admit I only heard them during the slow parts. The other parts the movie was so damn loud, you wouldn't even hear a nuclear bomb going off. Luckily years of going to Metallica concerts has ruined my hearing already. So there's nothing left to lose.

	03-06-2005 06:49									#468
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oh yeah, the movie. I was fairly happy with the movie. This might be the best Star Wars film- ever. I think it may even be better than Empire Strikes back. Only the Star Wars Holiday Special could compare to this film in quality.

I prefer Padme over Leia anyday (though I wouldn't mind doing the mother/daughter at the same time )

Hayden Christenson was actually acceptable in this movie. I didn't care for him in Attack of the clones, but I felt he did an acceptable job in this movie. It wasn't good, but acceptable.

And he was damn sexy with the dark looks he had in this movie. If I were gay.... I just liked the dark look in his eyes during some of the parts. His facial expressions were better in this film.

Ben Kenobi was better in this film as well. Though the humour didn't work well. But he came off as a pretty cool character at the end.

The emporer was fantastic, good performance.

That one senator (the one who adopts the kid) wasn't too bad either.

C3PO and R2D2 were annoying as usual. R2 has all these funcitons that he doesn't have in later movies, I don't like that.

People say Anakin fell to the dark side too easy, but it wasn't that quick. He started falling in the last film anyways. It wasn't exactly overnight. And he loved Padme. It was plausible.

	03-06-2005 08:09									#469
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: People aren't going to want to go out of their way to see Clone Wars, which explains why Grevious isn't a complete droid Um... watching RotS shows that Grevious isn't a complete droid. Which droids have functioning lungs and a heart? --- As for Anakin's turn, I thought it was fairly convincing given all the cirumstances. We know that Anakin isn't that fond of the Jedi order. He sees them as perpetraying one injustice after another on them. And then when Windu wants to contravene Jedi code to kill Palpatine, he thinks, hey, Palpy was right. The Jedi are out for their own power. After he kills the Jedi Master, he knows he can't go back. And the only friend he has left is Palpatine... even if he is a Sith, Anakin is now convinced that the Jedi and Sith are two sides of a the same coin, looking for power by that point.

I agree, and him killing younglings isn't that unbelievable after ep 2 where he killed women and children.

	03-06-2005 08:11									#470
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Diss . Welcome to the Dark Side .

	03-06-2005 09:39									#471
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Diss . Welcome to the Dark Side .

	03-06-2005 10:26									#472
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I loved all the dark side in this film, but you have to admit it's kind of cheesy the way Padme dies. Surely they could have done that better.

	03-06-2005 10:29									#473
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I would have liked to see some actual blood, but I know that's asking too much from a star wars film. But all these chopped off limbs and no blood...

It was a gripe I had about Fellowship of the Ring (all of them I guess). Orcs head flying off and no blood...

	03-06-2005 10:40									#474
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w00t! w00t! w00t! w33p!

I am going to miss the Star Wars genre. I love the worlds Lucas created. The last two movies, not so much. This movie, YES!

DARK, scary, and disturbing in all of the right ways that make you feel wrong. (Master Anakin whatever should we do? Fzzsh!!!)

I liked it. It was w00t! with some w00t! and an extra side serving of w00t! on the side.

Ok, ok, ok.

1) Better defined lightsabers!! You coudl see teh shape of them which eeked the hell out of me.

2) Anakin becomes VADER!- The only thing Christensen did well.
He had his eveli look, and he had it well. So well, thta he couldn't fit in anything good for Discussing crap with Obi Wan, or Romance with Padme.

3)Jar Jar- WTF? You may sya, where was he? Wasn't he in a few background shots? EXACTLY!!

4) Beginning- Beautifully done. Wonderful secucing seg int oa battle scene. The battle was pure eye candy, and briliance. I loved it.

-1) Darthenstein- WTF? Was Lucas going for some stoopid Homage? That almost ruined the netire movie for me, and totally corn balled it for everyone I know.

	03-06-2005 10:42									#475
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"you won't escape this time"

another corny line

The Noooooo!! wasn't as corny as people said. But I admit it's not as good as Khaaaaaan!!

I don't get what you said about Darthenstein. I thought the darth vader thing was pretty cool.

	03-06-2005 10:45									#476
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speaking of better defined light sabers, I'd like to see curved weapons like scimitars.

come on, I finally see the movie and no one is talking about it anymore. People seemed to be more interested in what most people call the name of the first star wars movie.

	03-06-2005 10:45									#477
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I would have liked to see some actual blood, but I know that's asking too much from a star wars film. But all these chopped off limbs and no blood... It was a gripe I had about Fellowship of the Ring (all of them I guess). Orcs head flying off and no blood...

Did you enjoy Kill Bill vol.1?

	03-06-2005 10:47									#478
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I used to be excited by Star Wars... but then my balls dropped. Started getting excited by other things from that point onwards....

I wish that balance could have been restored by releasing "Star Wars Episode 2.5: The Conception".

The film was not convincing... a rebellion of the Jedi would not have been sufficient to destroy democracy... especially when the war had just been won. An extra element was needed... hyperinflation perhaps?

The conversion of Anakin was poorly done...

Hell... the movie was ****. There. I said it. All three of them were ridiculous. Maybe I've just grown up... or maybe I expect more from a movie. I enjoyed the first star wars films because I was a little kid and I could compensate for the films wants with my own imagination. I guess I can't do that anymore....

Last edited by Dracon II on 03-06-2005 at 11:04

	03-06-2005 10:49									#479
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Another thing I hate is watching ****ed up star wars cross promotion exercize that we all have to put up with for the months that surround each movie's release!

I DON'T WANT A BLACK M&M OR A DARTH VADER HAPPY MEAL YOU GODDAMN TELEVISION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay... I'm checking myself into the clinic now....

	03-06-2005 11:21									#480
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo Did you enjoy Kill Bill vol.1?

that was actually too much blood.

all I ask for is a happy medium.