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Geronimo
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st cloud USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
QFT re: Jaguar's post
in fact, so QFT that it doesn't even need to be quoted |
What is it that he is right about?
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JohnT
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Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:21
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quote:
Well, you complained about Lucas being a revisionist, so I assume you're upset at more than just revising the titles, right? |
No, what I'm really complaining about, deep down, is that the guy is f*cking with a part of my childhood that was a pleasant memory. Nothing serious as I wasn't the 1983 uberfan that I was in 1977 - too much had changed, and like a lot of things I outgrew Star Wars. But it was fun, it was a hobby (I had (had  ) an awesome card collection), and it made a number of things that I liked (especially science fiction)... if not "cool", then it helped lift them from the gutter into the mainstream.
And then he starts changing it. Minor things at first, like the crawl in the first movie four years after it was released, but major things as well, like the revelation that Darth and Luke are related. And then, in the “last” movie, he makes Luke, Leia, and Darth related.
But, still, it ended with ROTJ*. Yeah, there was a potential six more movies out there, but they were just something to look forward to, if they came. If not, it was a fun ride.
14 years pass. In this time, Lucas releases Howard the Duck a catastrophe so embarrassing that he hides for the next 5 years, finally coming out in the 1990s to announce that he is going for the money: he is re-releasing the original Star Wars trilogy (with new technology and added scenes!) and is in pre-production for the next trilogy, to start in the late 90s.
His first mistake, which to me has become symbolic of the trainwreck that followed, was renaming the original movie. For no reason whatsoever, he declares that Star Wars is no longer Star Wars, but that it’s called A New Hope. He doesn't have a reason other than his constantly changing vision, it makes no sense given the millions of videotapes that are clearly marked Star Wars, it wasn't made because he thought it would make the movie better, he just decides to rename the movie just to make sure we got the point.
Got it, George. You couldn’t have made it plainer.
But… at the time it seemed a minor event.
And then he releases the "special editions." And they are... not better. Greedo shooting first. Jabba at the Millennium Falcon. Tatooine lizards. Leia not kissing Luke on the lips. Nothing he did improved the film other than the technical aspects that Star Wars has always been known for (The film did look great. Lucas, for all his faults, is a F/X and sound wizard and I agree that modern movies are the better for his vision) and the minor plot points that he "revised" pointed to a sinister direction - the child-proofing of Star Wars. Same thing with the next two - in ESB Luke screams "nooooo" like a sissy when he falls (in the original, he went down quietly, like a man who made his choice and accepts death because of it). In ROTJ... I don't know what they changed in ROTJ 'cause I haven't bothered seeing it.
But still… had that been all, I would’ve been OK with it. They were minor and there were enough copies of the older prints around if I wanted them. However, he made the situation much worse with the prequels.
TPM came out. The ultimate in child-proofed science fiction, it crystallized what I felt was wrong with the revisions: pandering to the 8-10 year-old set as Lucas tries to recast his epic for a new generation. And for most fans of the original series, it just failed. Not only did we have to endure an entire Star Wars movie (the first in 18-odd years!) centered around a freakin’ bike race, we had to deal with a developing backstory that was so…  Great, Darth Vader comes about because of a manufactured trade dispute. Wow, sounds exciting! 
Star Wars fans reel in shock and disbelief, except for the kids who grew up later with their own mythologies and perspectives and weren’t part of the initial mystery of it all. We could neither stand nor understand Jar Jar – WTF was Lucas thinking with that one? (With a few years on me, I can’t help but wonder if there is a secret pact among the “Jar Jar CGI team” to back each other up when they claim working on the space scenes on their resumes?) The end, with Anakin flying into space and doing whatever he was did to save the day (I only saw the film once) - did he think anybody was going to buy that?
Just horrible. TPM will go down as one of the worst or most disappointing films in history, mark my words.
SW EP 2: AOTC (happy?) is next. More lustrous CGI eye-candy, THX Vibrato 9000 sound pumping nicely, there’s going to be a war with lots of fighting, far, far less (and wisely used, imo) Jar Jar… this film had potential, despite the cumbersome name. Upon viewing, however, the disappointment was still there:
1. The nature of doing a prequel began to work against Lucas – the man should’ve read his Dune. The first three movies (now #s 4,5,6 but I digress) locked the second trilogy into a set story – by knowing the future, the prequels had to end but one way: with Anakin becoming Vader, the Empire ascendant, Obi Wan and Yoda in hiding, the twins born and separated, and etc and etc, down to sufficient detail. There was no surprise, no anticipation of whether they are going to get through this – after all, Anakin becomes Vader, the Empire becomes ascendant, Obi Wan… It takes an excellent writer to start with the ending and work his way backwards – Lucas was not that writer.
2. He then decided to give Vader a complete Freudian makeover – he’s not evil, he just has unresolved Mommy issues! Poor Anakin! If it weren’t for the inept way the Republic was running things (and they did allow slavery), he might not have had reason to join the dark side.
3. Lucas then penned a love story so syrupy and banal, with actors totally lacking in chemistry spouting such hauntingly bad dialogue that your high-school drama coach was rolling in his grave. It was so pathetic that it made one pine for Jack and Rose from Titanic. (  ) Or at least Winslet. 
4. And **** – Hayden Christianson… I don’t like to speak ill of people, but I just didn’t buy him as Vader. And that’s enough about that.
ROTS tried to go darker, but didn’t succeed very well. Is there anybody here who really thinks this was a PG-13 movie? Anybody? One or two shots of suspiciously neat bodies of children (soon to be enhanced!) and that requires a PG 13 rating? In 1978, Disney’s The Black Hole took us kiddies on a luxury voyage through heaven and hell, and all on a PG rating! However, the kiddie-quotient dropped to near zero as his initial target audience of 8-10 year-olds are now 14-16 years-old and they won’t deal with the likes of Jar Jar – I guess that is Lucas’ way of being “darker.”
And even more than AOTC, ROTS existed merely for the purposes of matching the 5th, er, 2nd movie with the 1st, er, 4th film. Whether or not it succeeded is for another post (  ), but the fact is that there was no anticipation other than seeing the latest and greatest CGI and sound. Just by knowing #4, I knew who was going to do what and I found myself ticking off continuity resolutions as the movie progressed.
Now the original movie is completely different. When you’re watching Vader confront Leia in the opening sequence in Star Wars, you have to keep in mind that Leia is unaware of the following: that Darth Vader is her father, her grandmother was a slave on Tatooine before she was raped (?) and murdered by the Sand People (which resulted in your father, Lord Vader(!), exposing himself to the dark side for the first time)… oh, and your mother is dead and dad thinks he killed her when he did not (one of a number of unearned guilt-trips that eventually makes him EVIL! (It could also be argued that he was justified in popping a cap in Mace Windu’s ass when Mace went all whack and anti-Jedi code on Palpatine. Or whatever his name was at that second.)), and your brother, unbeknownst to you, is living on that planet that you are currently orbiting!
And if you don’t think that’s enough, you know those droids? One of them was Darth Vader’s copilot before he betrayed the Republic, and the other one, get this - he was built by no other than Vader himself! Why don’t you ask the little blue droid to tell you all about it when you're recording that message to General Kenobi? Isn't that an odd little coincidence!
And, your brother that you don't know about… he’s days away from meeting the very same Wookie that helped Yoda escape when the rebellion occurred, the same Yoda (along with Ben Kenobi) who helped decide what to do with you when you were born.
But that’s OK. “You’ve known. You’ve always known.”
Oh, and Darth Vader is Hayden Christianson. Sorry ‘bout that. 
Got it? See why I can’t stand the PT? It turned a fun space opera into a bland soap opera complete with dysfunctional family issues, a Magnolia in Space or something.
*Oh... since Imran conceded the argument, had he but looked up ROTJ at the Copyright office website as I did, he would've seen that ROTJ was officially titled Star Wars Episode Six: Return of the Jedi. It wouldn't have won him the argument, but it would've kept him in for a good 20 more posts.
Didn't you ever wonder why I didn't cite it?  
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Geronimo
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st cloud USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Jaguar
Oh, and JohnT, if you've never seen the ROTJ DVD, don't. It has Hayden in it. |
I haven't seen it but where on earth could that have put Hayden in ROTJ? is he in the DVD commentary or something?
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Geronimo
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st cloud USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Jaguar
Think final two minutes. At just the right time to spoil it. |
last two minutes? isn't that the celebrations and dancing and music and what not after Vader is not only dead but cremated? What did they do, tack on a flashback or something? I thought at first youmeant they had put him in the dead jedi ghost group shot at the end, but Hayden is too young to pass as the older Anakin, unless they added some years with a cheezy make up job.
In any event I can't see any way of adding Hayden to that movie that would be anything but bad.
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Geronimo
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st cloud USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Oh for heaven's sake, why the secrecy?
Lucas replaced the actor who originally played Anakin in RotJ with Hayden Christensen in the scene with the ghosts standing and watching the Rebels and Ewoks celebrating. He is meant to be Young Anakin, as his ghost apparently reverted to his pre-evil visage. |
this makes no sense whatsoever. I'ts baffling that Lucas would put anakin in that scene when he makes clear in his latest film that he intended only for Jedi who have had intensive years of training and access to a nearly unknwon breakthrough by Qui-gon to be able to live on as force ghosts or whatever they are.
How would anakin have learned that? Why go to the bother of tampering with the scene if not to remove the inconsistant element?
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Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:21
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Well, since he already had Anakin in the scene, that point is moot. If he had deleted Anakin out of it entirely, that would probably have caused a bigger uproar. Not from me, mind you, as found that entire shot to be among the most cheesy, maudlingly sentimental moments in the entire series.
However, having Anakin in as his young self does make more sense than the one originally in it, I suppose, since that visage never existed in the first place...
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26-05-2005 02:30
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