22-05-2005 18:25									#1
	The West Awakens Beta Release Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Play anyone but the Kingdoms, all criticisms, comments, and help are welcome.
A comment like "this scenario sucks canal water" - is acceptable.

I have not had any time to playtest except 10 turns with the Spartans. It was either create the scenario or play all the really cool new ones being made. So this is an unplaytested scenario. I am still working on a player help so enjoy the blind adventure



Fairline will be sending the new graphics in a few weeks

Attachment: thewestawakensbeta.zip
This has been downloaded 29 time(s).

	22-05-2005 18:34									#2
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There are three scenarios
1- one year turns for those who enjoy shorter games
2- six month turns for those who enjoy more realism
3- seasonal turns for maximum realism yet a long game

The sounds

Main unit sounds

Attachment: extrasoundwest.zip
This has been downloaded 11 time(s).

	22-05-2005 18:37									#3
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A screenshot of a battle in this scenario

Attachment: phalanxgreek.jpg
This has been downloaded 130 time(s).

	22-05-2005 18:41									#4
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And this picture is dedicated to Leonidas - a fellow fan of Sparta

The battle of Thermopylae, 480 BC.

Attachment: termopili_200.jpg
This has been downloaded 128 time(s).

Last edited by beingofone on 22-05-2005 at 19:19

	22-05-2005 19:17									#5
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A screenshot of Greece

Attachment: greece.jpg
This has been downloaded 125 time(s).

	23-05-2005 02:49									#6
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beingofone:

Speaking of Leonidas... heheh

I downloaded and had a look at your scenario. It all looks very nice. The graphics are excellent.

Not sure when I will have an opportunity to play this scenario as I am already playing several scenarios now. This, combined with work, doesn't leave much free time.

However, I will dive into it when I do get some free time.

It seems scenarios are being created faster than we can play them, which is always a good thing...

Cheers!

	23-05-2005 04:10									#7
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quote: Speaking of Leonidas... heheh

Thought you would like that. To bad I made the Spartans little sissy men in this scenario

What does it say about my scenario making skills when the pictures get downloaded more than the scenario
I will delude myself into believing its the popularity of WW2
LOL

I will have some time to playtest this tomorrow and try to look for any bugs, military imbalance, or general screwups.

	23-05-2005 20:56									#8
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Found some bugs,
Carthage when controlled by the AI kept getting taken by barbs. fixed
Phoenician culture now non-tradable
fixed the game start famine problem
fixed the tech to allow production and reset cost

	23-05-2005 21:00									#9
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Here are the fixes

Attachment: westpatch.zip
This has been downloaded 12 time(s).

	23-05-2005 21:43									#10
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I still can't get my computer to run civ without overheating - as soon as I've sussed the problem I'll report back. I'll probably alter your choice of unit gfx considerably, if that's OK with you. Are you definitely wanting multi-figure units for the twelve-rank phalanxes etc? I'm not a big fan personally, and I'd rather distinguish via unit pose.

	23-05-2005 21:45									#11
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Oh - will the patch work with the files you sent me, or should I download all of these attachments?

	23-05-2005 21:48									#12
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Three in a row - sorry!

Just wanted to demand that all you WW2 addicts give this a try and report back!

	24-05-2005 07:59									#13
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quote: Originally posted by fairline Three in a row - sorry! Just wanted to demand that all you WW2 addicts give this a try and report back!

i'd try it but i don't have a cd drive, when my power supply went it took my cd burner and dvd drive with it, not to mention my video card, and my motherboard seems to be on it's last legs,
anyone know where to find a no-cd-patch?

	24-05-2005 08:12									#14
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Sounds are excellent! Did they come from a movie, probably?

	24-05-2005 09:36									#15
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quote: Originally posted by fairline I still can't get my computer to run civ without overheating - as soon as I've sussed the problem I'll report back. I'll probably alter your choice of unit gfx considerably, if that's OK with you. Are you definitely wanting multi-figure units for the twelve-rank phalanxes etc? I'm not a big fan personally, and I'd rather distinguish via unit pose.

I just wanted to make a distinction by the multiple units, I leave the graphics in your capable hands, especially since I have no such skills.
As soon as you can give me some feedback, I will greatly appreciate it. Some things I am happy with others I am not.

1- Does anyone know how to make the AI keep from abandoning some of its most valuable cities? I would rather not use a unit that can`t move?
2- I set the scenario start with very small cities as this is historical (Athens was barely 30 - 40,000). This may have to be changed.
3- The AI does know how to fight with these unit stats in the scenario (at least better) however with the harsh, and I mean harsh living conditions at the start it seems not to know quite what to do. - comments anyone
(I am thinking I might have to decrease the amount of food eaten)

quote: Oh - will the patch work with the files you sent me, or should I download all of these attachments?

You will need to download these files.


biru biru

quote: Sounds are excellent! Did they come from a movie, probably?

Thanks, many different sources. I was curios if they were good or just irritating - LOL

Broken_Erika

quote: i'd try it but i don't have a cd drive, when my power supply went it took my cd burner and dvd drive with it, not to mention my video card, and my motherboard seems to be on it's last legs,

I hope we don`t lose you, you add allot to the Civ sites.

quote: anyone know where to find a no-cd-patch?

There is one on this page, I don`t know if it works.

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ2utility.shtml

	26-05-2005 15:17									#16
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Almost done with playtesting, fixed many problems.

quote: 1- Does anyone know how to make the AI keep from abandoning some of its most valuable cities? I would rather not use a unit that can`t move?

This question has to do with my total lack of sleep for two days. You just set them to defend - am I right?

Should be done with the final version very soon.

I have enjoyed playtesting this scenario a bunch. Without any built in event constraints, the scenario, no matter who you play, mimics history very well. No nation is bound to history, it just seems to be the best option for survival and growth.
The Carthaginians expand right along their true path of history, same goes for Athens and Sparta all when played by the AI. Very satisfied with the results so far.
Setting this scenario up for single player so that the AI will not only give you a run for your money but could threaten your existence. No nation in the game is overwhelming and all are positioning for dominance.
Other nations that did not grow quite as much in the given time frame also imitate history as they seem to not overextend and become vulnerable.

You might have questions such as, why are there no terrain modifiers and why does most of the units have attack and defense strength of 25 or better?

I did a bunch of research for this and playtested many different A/D strengths. I discovered that when the unit A/D and firepower are keyed up, you get a much more sophisticated combat system. This results in a dynamic of the random element that is missing in the 4 vs 3 combat system. When you introduce 35 attack points to 25 in defense it opens up to a much more subtle system. Try it yourself, you will see what I mean. Play with the combat factors and firepower up to say 90 points.

Think of the combat factors on a percentile scale. 30 combat points means the unit will hit 30% of the time.
OK- you can do the math to convert these numbers to the board wargame combat factors or something similar.

I also learned that each hit point is equal to ten total points. So a unit with 10 hit points actually has 100 total.
Do some conversion math - in my scenario 1 hit point equals 1000 men - and this system works to simulate very interesting possibilities.

The only drawback is the fight to the death game engine.

Firepower I am still experimenting with. Could be used a great deal for scenarios after gunpowder for conversion numbers.

Anyone else use a system like this?


The pictures get downloaded a bunch so here is a Greek Hoplite

	27-05-2005 07:51									#17
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Mr. Temba's Charlemagne scenario used very high numbers.

	27-05-2005 09:53									#18
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I Played a star trek mod whith very high numbers, (I.E 40a,40d,12h,6f,)
It seemed to work nicely,

	28-05-2005 09:25									#19
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Thanks Exile,
I had never seen a scenario with high numbers and hit points. I was curios if this avenue had ever been explored.
Have you ever keyed up the numbers?

What mod was that Erika?

	28-05-2005 09:34									#20
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No, I never use the very high numbers, primarily because when I design, I'm attempting to recreate specific outcomes by trial-and-error, and keeping the unit stats basic makes this process easier. My own experience is that, once you elevate the numbers, the results become less predictable.

	28-05-2005 10:20									#21
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by fairline I still can't get my computer to run civ without overheating - as soon as I've sussed the problem I'll report back.

There's this curious thing about the cv2 exe, in that for some reason it eats up all availiable CPU usage... (at least in my computer)... Thus, if your CPU is overclocked or undercooled, this can happen. Make sure that air can flow freely inside, and that the cooler fan and heatsink do not have too much dust.

	31-05-2005 05:36									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Exile No, I never use the very high numbers, primarily because when I design, I'm attempting to recreate specific outcomes by trial-and-error, and keeping the unit stats basic makes this process easier. My own experience is that, once you elevate the numbers, the results become less predictable.

I know what you mean. The randomness can be a plus. You can still limit the overall effects but it does seem to be less predictable, which is exactly what I was looking for.
I created this sophisticated combat matrix, only to have the AI refuse to build the units - DO`H.


Achilles