23-05-2005 10:00									#1
	Your tax dollars at work, Part MMMDCCCLXXXVIII Increase the size of your Attachments

One scacely knows where to begin, really...

quote: N.Y. Audit: Sex Offenders Getting Viagra By MICHAEL VIRTANEN, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 20 minutes ago Scores of convicted rapists and other high-risk sex offenders in New York have been getting Viagra paid by Medicaid for the last five years, the state's comptroller said Sunday. Audits by Comptroller Alan Hevesi's office showed that between January 2000 and March 2005, 198 sex offenders in New York received Medicaid-reimbursed Viagra after their convictions. Those included crimes against children as young as 2 years old, he said. Hevesi asked Michael Leavitt, secretary of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, in a letter Sunday to "take immediate action to ensure that sex offenders do not receive erectile dysfunction medication paid for by taxpayers." A call to Leavitt's office was not immediately returned Sunday. According to Hevesi, the problem is an unintended consequence of a 1998 directive from federal officials telling states that Medicaid prescription programs must include Viagra. His office discovered that the state was helping sex offenders pay for Viagra by checking Medicaid pharmacy expenditures against the state's sex offender registry. New York's two senators said Sunday the problem should be corrected. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said in a statement that it was "deeply disturbing and runs contrary to the purpose of Medicaid, which is to provide health care coverage for uninsured, low-income individuals." Clinton, a Democrat, urged Leavitt to look into the matter, and said she would explore legislative options. New York's other senator, Democrat Chuck Schumer, said at a press conference in New York City that he hoped the issue could be resolved without a bill, but he's prepared to offer one if needed. "While I believe that HHS did not do this intentionally, when the government pays for Viagra for sex offenders, it could well hurt many innocent people," he said. New York auditors are reviewing whether other prescription drugs for sexual dysfunction are being reimbursed by Medicaid for convicted sex offenders, Hevesi spokesman David Neustadt said. While the auditors didn't review the situation on Viagra reimbursement by Medicaid in other states, he said they have no indication that the policies are different elsewhere.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...ffenders_viagra

	23-05-2005 10:08									#2
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Just in case this thread would deteriate into an asinine "blame-whole-problem only on Democrats" here is an example of a Democrat who knows this is a problem:

"Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said in a statement that it was 'deeply disturbing and runs contrary to the purpose of Medicaid, which is to provide health care coverage for uninsured, low-income individuals.'"

	23-05-2005 10:11									#3
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun here is an example of a Democrat who is a problem: Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton

	23-05-2005 10:11									#4
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Hillary Rodham Clinton is an ignorant **** who can, as loinburger puts it so eloquently, "wrap around my ass".

	23-05-2005 10:48									#5
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and the thread has already been taken over by trolls

	23-05-2005 10:51									#6
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yep

	23-05-2005 10:59									#7
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there is hope for you guys yet, maybe this is just part of President Bush's Prescription Drug plan.

	23-05-2005 11:46									#8
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous and the thread has already been taken over by trolls

	23-05-2005 12:52									#9
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Part 3888?

	23-05-2005 12:59									#10
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the answer is simple. Medicaid should not provide Viagra. Even without sex offenders getting them, I'm against anyone getting Viagra with goverment money.

If I can't get laid, then I don't expect anyone else to either.

If the goverment is going to pay for this ****, then they should pay for prostitutes for myself.

	23-05-2005 13:13									#11
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If medicaid provides medicine to citizens then sex offenders are citizens and so should be covered like everyone else. That is the only fair solution given that these people have done their time and have been released.

	23-05-2005 13:19									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin If medicaid provides medicine to citizens then sex offenders are citizens and so should be covered like everyone else. That is the only fair solution given that these people have done their time and have been released.

sex offenders are never truelly cured. we only let them out because we don't have room in our prisons. We need that room for more important prisoners like those who deal in drugs. Yes republicans care more about getting rid of drugs than they do about little girls being raped.

	23-05-2005 14:23									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin If medicaid provides medicine to citizens then sex offenders are citizens and so should be covered like everyone else.

The problem with sex offenders is sex crimes are related to power, or the lack thereof, and has nothing to do physiological problems.

	23-05-2005 14:32									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger The problem with sex offenders is sex crimes are related to power, or the lack thereof, and has nothing to do physiological problems.

Still, if we won't let former violent felons buy guns, why will we let former sex offenders buy viagra?

	23-05-2005 14:35									#15
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Yes, but if a sex offender *happens* to have an erectile dysfunction, are they not entitled to the same treatment that everyone else gets, once they've paid their debt to society?

	23-05-2005 14:39									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Still, if we won't let former violent felons buy guns, why will we let former sex offenders buy viagra?

For the simple reason that rape etc are crimes of violence far more than they are crimes of sex.

Your analogy doesn't hold really - it's like saying that felons who committed violent crime should not be allowed to own TV's which can display violent images

	23-05-2005 14:39									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Still, if we won't let former violent felons buy guns, why will we let former sex offenders buy viagra?

Um, I agree. I was trying to say they don't need viagra.

	23-05-2005 14:41									#18
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quote: Originally posted by el freako For the simple reason that rape etc are crimes of violence far more than they are crimes of sex. Your analogy doesn't hold really - it's like saying that felons who committed violent crime should not be allowed to own TV's which can display violent images

his analogy is perfect, it's yours that is off . What does TV have to do with this discussion?

They use their penis as a weapon. That is the same as a gun.

If you want to argue against this argument, then you should also state that fists can also be a weapon. Therefore we should not allow criminals to buy weights (barbells and dumbells etc) so they can enhance their punching ability.

	23-05-2005 14:42									#19
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quote: Originally posted by el freako For the simple reason that rape etc are crimes of violence far more than they are crimes of sex.

Yes, but the crimes are committed with a particular, um, weapon, which Viagra allows them to, um load.

So, okay, I guess the analogy is to letting violent felons buy bullets. Is that better?

	23-05-2005 15:30									#20
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Felons buy guns all the time thanks to the NRA. You can walk into a gun show and buy a gun for cash with no background checks and you don't even need a valid ID. You get your gun, you pay, and you walk out the door with it. The whole process takes 5 minutes. You can use a school ID or any other unvarified ID you please and 60 minutes did a program to prove it.

	23-05-2005 17:12									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident sex offenders are never truelly cured. we only let them out because we don't have room in our prisons. We need that room for more important prisoners like those who deal in drugs. Yes republicans care more about getting rid of drugs than they do about little girls being raped.

False, sex offenses are amongst the crimes with the lowest recidival rate.

	23-05-2005 17:13									#22
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ignore.

	23-05-2005 17:15									#23
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A long term follow-up study of child molesters in Canada found that 42% were reconvicted of sexual or violent crime during the 15-30 year follow-up period.

http://www.johnhoward.ab.ca/PUB/C24.htm

	23-05-2005 17:15									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident They use their penis as a weapon. That is the same as a gun.

Beginning to understand the causes of rampant gun crime in the United States now, yes....

	23-05-2005 17:17									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Quoted so everyone can pwn the **** out of him without him editing.

There are sexual offenses other than child molesting, so try again.

	23-05-2005 17:21									#26
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Actually my previous statement was a bit prematurate. The true bummer here is that:

quote: In addition, the long-term follow-up study (15-30 years)of child molesters showed that the average recidivism rate for this group of offenders is actually lower than the average recidivism rate for non-sexual offenders (61% versus 83.2% respectively for any new conviction).

	23-05-2005 17:40									#27
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That is, in Canada there is a 61% recidivism rate for sexual offenders versus a 83.2% recidivism rate for all criminals. That makes them below average but does it make them "among the lowest"? Theoretically a quarter of all criminal types could be worse. Still, Diss's claim was they were the highest which doesn't seem to be true but you haven't proven your point either.

Also I recall reading that sexual crimes like child molesteration are one of the hardest to prove since victims often don't come forward until years after the events. These figures only show reconvictions so in all likely hood the recitivism is occuring and it just isn't showing up as a conviction. My month is that sex offenders are atleast as bad as average when it comes to recitivism.

	23-05-2005 19:08									#28
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

"Recidivism" refers to repeat offenders after they've been jailed at least once, as it is meant to evaluate the efficiency of rehabilitation programs.

BTW, are you sure that the study considers the date of reconviction instead of the date of the crime?

I agree that saying the recidivism rate is "lowest" only makes sense when you compare sexual vs non-sexual, as the figure would probably be different if you included a lot of crime sub-types. Then my case was just that the alleged incurability of sex offenders is just a myth.

	23-05-2005 21:20									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin If medicaid provides medicine to citizens then sex offenders are citizens and so should be covered like everyone else. That is the only fair solution given that these people have done their time and have been released.

The only fair solution is to never release these predators back into society.

	24-05-2005 00:49									#30
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no, the fair solution is not to provide viagra. half the people using it aren't even impotent, they just want to be hard for long periods of time.

It's bullshit Viagra is covered by medicaid at all. Sex is a luxery. it's not necessary for human survival.