24-05-2005 02:01									#1
	Thank you for including different leaders Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think that attaching some qualities and traits to different leaders is the perfect solution for both replayability, and the "pre set" versus "developed" traits offered in civ 2 and civ 3.

I think however that there are two more easy steps that could be taken to increase this effect, and finally solve the "Rise and Fall of Civilizations" issue, which has been widely discussed before.

Step 1: Release more leaders for free.

Step 2: Allow for mid game leader change.


Imagine, a strong and militaristic france, having a revolution - and suddenly a different regime, following a different leader ensues. And then france changes completely from an expansive super power to a politically savvy perfectionist nation.

If only 3-4 such changes occur mid game - it could have staggering results on the replayability and the immersion in game. Revolutions will mean more than ever!

	24-05-2005 21:53									#2
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More simply, along with the other AC style government changes, allow the player to swap between the leaders

	24-05-2005 22:30									#3
	Re: Thank you for including different leaders Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Step 2: Allow for mid game leader change.

That would be really cool, IMHO, of course.

	25-05-2005 02:50									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Mahdimael More simply, along with the other AC style government changes, allow the player to swap between the leaders

no!

i mean - yes.

but more importantly - make my PC controlled adversaries change their leaders mid game, randomly (though not too damn often)

	25-05-2005 02:56									#5
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Fabulous idea!

The Russians tire of their autocratic Tsar Peter I, overthrow him and replace him with dictator Josef Stalin.

Or perhaps... Civil War in Rome! Outraged plebeians out Caesar Augustus! The Empire splits into Rome and Byzantium, ruled by Marcus Aurelius and Justinian respectively.

So much potential... I only hope it will be realized...

	25-05-2005 03:25									#6
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So basically, if I understand correctly, the Civ traits from Civ3 have been replaced by ruler traits in Civ4. That makes sense.

Also, Alexander's post here reminds me... Wasn't there some info somewhere about civil wars in Civ4 resulting in the breaking up of empires, ala capturing the capital in Civ2? Or am I hallucinating?

	25-05-2005 04:05									#7
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quote: Originally posted by vovan Wasn't there some info somewhere about civil wars in Civ4 resulting in the breaking up of empires, ala capturing the capital in Civ2? Or am I hallucinating?

I haven't read the forum since yesterday, but AFAIK, the only info we have is that a Firaxian dodged the question on civil wars.

	25-05-2005 04:15									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I haven't read the forum since yesterday, but AFAIK, the only info we have is that a Firaxian dodged the question on civil wars.

Well, it definitely wasn't within the last day or so that I think I remember seeing that info. So I imagine I may have misread the question dodging part.

	25-05-2005 05:37									#9
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Well, he didn't actually dodged the question. The reporter asked him 4 questions, and he only replied to the first three He could have really forgotten to answer that last one.

But the fact that we don't know about civil wars either means:
A. That the feature isn't advertised yet, and will be advertized in the future.
B. That they haven't made significant changes in that area.

	25-05-2005 16:03									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Step 1: Release more leaders for free.

They did say that one of the reasons they don't have more leaders in the game is because it's diffecult to find a second leader to many civs, but I guess that if we can help them find some good leaders (and leader personalities) it'll be more likely that they would do it

quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Step 2: Allow for mid game leader change.

Just make it happen not too often. I'd say max of 2* leader changes for each civ each game

* but I guess with how many leaders that are in the game it wouldn't be possible to change leaders mid-game for half the civs, and the other half can only change leaders once

	25-05-2005 19:26									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Adagio Just make it happen not too often. I'd say max of 2* leader changes for each civ each game * but I guess with how many leaders that are in the game it wouldn't be possible to change leaders mid-game for half the civs, and the other half can only change leaders once

Yes, I agree it should be limited. Perhaps attatching a negative effect (short term) in addition to the positive effect (long term) would be enough of a deterrent to prevent too many leader changes per game. A simple short term negative effect could be anarchy, for example.

It might even be fun to have the leaders in a "pool", and when you change leaders, the one you dropped goes back to the pool, available for the other civs to choose. That assumes that leaders aren't married to a particular civ, of course.