24-05-2005 20:08									#1
	MY 2172 Planning & Execution Thread Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Here are some suggestions and questions for next year, based on the turn simulator:

Engineering Corps

• New Ironholm former: help construct the condenser near AU?
  
• New Vladivostok former: help construct condenser?
  
• New RG former: move a tile west after the road there is completed, and plant forest?
  
• Former near MT: IIRC, was the plan to build the next road track towards 2NS a tile to the SE?
  
• Tomcat-OAx NE of SC2: move SE then N to plant a forest W of OA?
  
• Formers near Messena? What to do?? One former to the N, the other NW to build a road or something?
  
• New GH crawler: move E-E-S and harvest some nuts, en route to the empty mines of Minas Tirith?
  
• We need a two nutrient surplus at FS to popboom after the hab complex is complete. May I therefore suggest moving one of the crawler on (0.20) or (0.22) to Fort Soup to rehome them there? This turn it could move to (87.21). That way it could keep harvesting minerals while moving to FS.
  
• Messena has a large nutrient surplus. Do we want to popboom a bit already? Could be done by immediately cashing in that new crawler for children's creche production.

	25-05-2005 03:30									#2
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Turn's up - some early moves:

MY-2172

Research & Development/Diplomacy

• PDL Completed
  
• Planetary Economics researched, changed to AMA (choice was AMA, AST and Cent Empathy)
  
• The Gaians have accepted our offer of a truce
  
• reset sliders to 50/0/50 (48 per and next tech in 20) – 10/0/90 would give 0 per and next tech in 15
  
• Sold Planetary Economics to Zak for 25 ec’s
  
• Called Lal – he wants PE, but won’t trade anything for it, so no deal (he didn’t seem to get it automatically from Zak)
  
• No dice on Neural Grafting (yet) – Zak doesn’t have it yet

	25-05-2005 04:11									#3
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MY-2172 cont …………..

Engineering Corps(following Maniac’s suggestions)

• New Ironholm former assigned to help construct the condenser near AU
  
• New Vladivostok former assigned to help construct the condenser north of Vladivostok
  
• New GH crawler moved E-E-S and harvest some nuts, en route to the empty mines of Minas Tirith
  
• Moved the FL crawler from 0:20 to 87:21 en-route to rehoming at FS, continues to crawl 2 mins in the meanwhile (had to be that one else we’d need then to rush the former at TH
  
• Put a “retire this” in production at Messena and cashed in the crawler. Will wait before changing to a Creche pending discussion re a Rec Commons at AU

Last edited by Googlie on 25-05-2005 at 04:53

	25-05-2005 04:52									#4
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MY-2172 cont (2) ………….

Further moves

• Moved the trannie (name?) in the Laconian Gulf into MT where it can pick up the longstrider there
  
• Moved RG’s new Tomcat 1 tile west and tag teamed with the roadbuilding (completed) tomcat there to plant a forest
  
• Moved Tomcat-MT southeast and commenced roadbuilding there
  
• Landed the CAP B-6 at 2NS, preparatory to redeploying to the peacekeeper theater of operations next turn
  
• Shuttled the B-4 from 2NS to Iaci Base
  
• brought the B-4 patrolling Buster Ocean back to Craterwest, long way home to inspect fungus en-route. Nothing hiding there
  
• FB’s hoplite finally found the monolith, and got promoted to commando
  
• Put SC’s Tomcat to work SW of SC1 building a mine on the farmed roaded rolling/rainy tile there
  
• redeployed Vlad’s Tomcat to NW of SC1 to join team there building farm (2 turns) then condenser

Last edited by Googlie on 07-06-2005 at 20:28

	25-05-2005 16:48									#5
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Suggestions:

--why a condenser at AU? The sea-nut will produce 5 in 3 turns and a tree farm would add 4 nuts to what we currently produce. AU already have 6 economy, meaning a tree farm would be self-paying, and better with a 'sea-energy-what'sthename' after the kelp farm. +50% psych should help with drones. I'd say tree farm at AU, then rec commons and hab complex (ot the other way).
Nuts aren't a problem at AU, I'd send the former to build a mine on the mineral bonus.

--Or let it build a condenser for ironholm. With growth stagnant, it could also use a tree farm though building it would be more expensive/long. A creche would then logically follow (seems costly all those improvements but remember it will boost us greatly once they're built. That's the meaning of investment )

--Same with Fort Liberty: growth stagnant but lots of forests. And with 6 econ, a tree farm there would be already self-paying. And it already has a Creche, so the +2 nuts would make popbooming.

--Vladivostok: children creche? Or a sea former! (kelp farm at 3 nuts!
Mmh, with aquafarm and min stations... Miam!)

--Gythium Harbor: growth stagnant but 4 forests worked. Know what I mean?

All those, of course, notwithstanding the need for crawlers to help instabuild elsewhere or to catch some coming SP. By the way, what about the neural Amplifier (already asked but nobody noticed/replied)?

Friendly yours

	25-05-2005 17:38									#6
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quote: Originally posted by vishniac By the way, what about the neural Amplifier (already asked but nobody noticed/replied)?

Way back when ...... when the faction was young ..... we discussed the SP's we thought were "must have's" and those that were "nice to have" for Sparta.

Then there were those that fell into the "Well, if we have an almost completed SP that's been already built, and it's tying up minerals .... " category.

We put the NA into that last group, mainly 'cos we expect that being Sparta, most of our troops will reach Elite status pretty quickly (+50% to psi combat) which is the equivalent of the NG's bonus (sure, the NG would then give an additional +50%, but that's prolly overkill).

The "must have's" included the CDF and the MCC, as well as the Cyborg Factory. The Command Nexus was a bonus - an opportunistic snatch of it from under the Hive's nose, while the ME came to us via the University conquest. The PDL was one of those "nice to have" SP's that won't assure us of maintaining the tech lead, but also won't let us fall too far behind either

I'd say that the HSA is bordering on a "Must have" given the tech lead that we do currently enjoy as it more or less blocks the Angels from getting any techs that we, the Uni and the PK's might jointly have (which is why I selected AMA as our next tech - we'll have a decision to make whether we go for PSA oir MMI next choice (assuming we get NG relatively soon)

So it's not that the Neural Amplifier is worthless - just that we think there are more immediate uses for our enhanced crawlers (while it pains me to use our gin freighter to hurry a University SP, tactically, it's a brilliant thing to do given our commitment to the Angels)

	25-05-2005 21:24									#7
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Had a look at the turn. It looks great.

Iaci Base has grown to size 2 this turn. Shall we put its new worker on a forest? Currently it's producing only one surplus nut, meaning the base would grow in 18 turns... Not worth the wait I guess. Better have an extra mineral IMO.

Btw, what shall Santiago Citadel produce? A crawler to send to Minas Tirith's mines?

A little terraforming question: why has the former on (60.20) started constructing mines (resulting in 2-2-0 tiles)?? Should it not team up with all the others next turn to construct condenser farms?

quote: Originally posted by Googlie That gives +2 minerals, but 0 nuts – if we leave the worker on the seanut, AU will grow to size 7 next turn (but will have a drone). I suggest we leave as is and use the MM to instabuild a rec commons there, followed by a hab complex in 2173

While I agree of course we should build a rec commons and hab complex (followed by a tree farm as vishniac suggests) in Arcadia University, how about waiting until we have gathered enough crawlers (or credits) to rushbuild them both right after each other? Until we have a hab complex (which will take a while to build), the rec commons would only give us one extra worker, so until then it's more profitable to use the crawler to harvest some extra minerals. Those minerals should allow us to build the crawlers faster necessary to build the hab complex.

	25-05-2005 21:44									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Googlie How about both go NW to that rocky/moist tile SW of Messena and road/mine that tile (58:8)?

Seems fine to me.
Btw, we might run into a lack of terraforming problem when popbooming Messena.

quote: I'd send it to shadow the Freighter carrying the task force. Although the trannie can't be subverted while it's got cargo, it certainly could after its been emptied.

Sounds good.

quote: Originally posted by vishniac --why a condenser at AU?

If we want to popboom to size 14, we'll need lots of nutrients! A tree farm and the sea nutrient probably won't suffice once we need to turn workers into doctors to control drones. The condenser is also in Ironholms base radius btw, so we could use it for that base as well as you suggest.

quote: --Same with Fort Liberty: growth stagnant but lots of forests.

Tree farm in Fort Liberty would be great indeed.
However we have the problem: so much to do, so little crawlers? How about focusing our crawlers on AU first?

quote: --Gythium Harbor: growth stagnant but 4 forests worked. Know what I mean?

Here I'd disagree (for now). Tree farm (12 mineral rows) would give 4 extra nuts. By comparison, four crawlers (also 12 rows) could harvest 8 nuts on unterraformed rainy tiles. Not that I'm suggesting to do that, but just to give an example there are more cost-effective investments we can currently make at GH.

	25-05-2005 22:18									#9
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grats on PDL finally finishing
As for the NA SP, I'm thinking that we save our crawlers for emergencies. Hey you never know! And It doesn't look like anyone is in a hurry to build it either.

	26-05-2005 01:04									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Btw, we might run into a lack of terraforming problem when popbooming Messena.

More formers are needed in Laconia,I think.

I forgot Rio Grande. What there with 11 minerals a turn? Crawlers to help the other bases go out of stagnation?

Santiago Citadel: I thought it should the place for a SP but we decided (did we?) not to build the AV. Options would be crawlers (to help other bases), formers or an Hologram Theatre followed by a Hab complex to boost the pop.

quote: AU: If we want to popboom to size 14, we'll need lots of nutrients! A tree farm and the sea nutrient probably won't suffice once we need to turn workers into doctors to control drones.

My vision for AU would be to turn it into a cash-cow. It involves, while population increases, building tree farm (BTW, how efficient is its +50 psych when we reach pop 14?), Hab complex, rec commons, hybrid forest (another +50 psych...same question. I'm not conversed in drone questions) and energy bank.
I let you calculate the exact energy output by then, especially if we turn sea tiles to kelp+harness but it shouldn't be bad..
That also would naturally position AU to become the famous Super-Science-Base (if we grab super science SPs).
Along the way and depending how fast we build, the hybrid forest would solve any nutrient problem we could have.

quote: Tree farm in Fort Liberty would be great indeed. However we have the problem: so much to do, so little crawlers? How about focusing our crawlers on AU first?

Do we want to concentrate on one base and instabuild using crawlers or is it also possible to spend a few turns to complete a facility?


About Gythium Harbor, I concur (though I don't see what to build. Crawlers, then? More versatile). I'm still a novice with the use of crawlers (and greatly appreciate your insight )

	26-05-2005 05:52									#11
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MY-2172 cont (3) ………………

Further moves

• Changed AU build to a crawler
  
• Retired the Messena build design, and changed to a Crèche – rushed for 30 credits
  
• Mercury and SCC Minas Tirith blocked on going south by Hive missile skimship. So withdrew 2 tiles to let the Hive ship through
  
• B-4 riding CAP returned to Minas Tirith, replaced by another to shield the invasion force
  
• 2 Tomcats at Messena split – north and northeast, building roads preparatory to farms for Messena’s popboom
  
• redeployed Messena’s B-4 to Gythium Harbour to bolster airforce in the Hive theater, as we move airforce units to the PK theater.
  
• realized that as Messena will grow to 4 next turn (completed Creche and surplus nuts) will have a drone appear, som redeployed the F-6 from Craterwest to Messena to provide garrison duty. Next turn we can upgrade the Hoplite to a CDF (it had already moved this turn, so couldn’t)
  
• moved the new Iaci Base worker from the 2-nut tile to work a forest tile
  
• The Tomcat on (60:20) has now moved to join its 3 colleagues on 61:19 to construct condenser farms
  
• Tomcat FL-1 joins Wombat FL-1 at rainy river site west of FL to gangbuild a farm then a condenser there

Last edited by Googlie on 26-05-2005 at 19:04

	26-05-2005 05:54									#12
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And here's a screenie of the stalled Task Force:

Attachment: 2172-task force.gif
This has been downloaded 20 time(s).

	26-05-2005 12:24									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie I�ve pretty much put crawlers everywhere, recognizing their versatility. Do we want to invest in facilities at this time, anywhere?

I would say we want to improve infrastructure in general, so almost everywhere would be my answer. Maniac probably knows best what is best built where. Depending on war(s), we will need to keep making units in some places, of course, but hopefully not too many.

And what about Zak? Do we try to make him build the Ascetic Virtues or not?

	26-05-2005 18:39									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 And what about Zak? Do we try to make him build the Ascetic Virtues or not?

Well, the concensus seemed to be not to go to the mods to use the Kody program to make him switch.

And in-game, I don't know of any way of "suggesting" it to him

So it looks as though we need to wait until he completes a build in one of his bases and see if he starts the AV. If he doesn't, then another tactic would be to sell/trade it to Lal, and try to pact with him again so that we can send the ginfreighter there.

But that would make a subsequent invasion of lal problematical, as on dissolving the pact our units would be returned to base, so we'd be starting out afresh again

	26-05-2005 19:01									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie What to do with the 2 Tomcats in our Tri-city area (currently on a river fungus tile in the Crater bed)

Ah - I see that was addressed in the 2171 thread:

quote: Originally posted by Googlie [*]Cats SC and CW currently straddling Sector Cratersouth – how about moving N and E respectively and defungussing and farming that rolling river cratertile there (would give a 2-2-1 worker some creative employment)

and Maniac's reply:

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Sounds good to me.

Done

Also, late moves:

• Sent the F-6 at GH to 2NS - still able to cover MT assets and can quickly deploy to Iaci if needed
  
• loaded the trannie at MT with a longstrider and an Impact infantryman, and sent it out the Laconian Gulf to make its way eventually through Styx
  
• put a B-4 from MT riding CAP over the trannie
  
• held the Invincible and its trannie in position in the fungus outside UN Planning Authority
  
• Found a B-4 in Sector Cratersouth so sent it north to Messena (wasn't sure if Interceptor crews could do double duty as police, or just penetrator crews)
  
• Held the slow trannie in Vladivostok harbour
  
• Rushed OA's crawler for 11 credits

	26-05-2005 19:15									#16
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I can't look at the turn right now, but the moves sound good.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie [*]Found a B-4 in Sector Cratersouth so sent it north to Messena (wasn't sure if Interceptor crews could do double duty as police, or just penetrator crews)

It are only bombers that provide garrison duty. In this case it's a non-issue though for two reasons:
1) Messena already has two garrison units, our maximum allowed number.
2) AFAIK the base will only start popbooming the turn after the children's creche is completed, meaning Messena will still be at size 3 next year. So we'll have time to upgrade the hoplite to a citizen defence force.

quote: Next turn we'll have 1 extra citizen at the following bases Messena Santiago Citadel Maybe Vladivostok (nutbox is 4 shy of completion, and it generates 4 surplus nuts this turn, but is showing 2 turns to complete)

I think only Santiago Citadel will grow. For Messena see above. For Vladivostok: bases grow the turn after their nutrient tanks are completely filled.

quote: We do need to commission a handful more Crypteia, for garrison duties in the Peacekeeper bases that we'll capture, so maybe need to switch some Arcadian bases from crawlers to crypteia (such as FL and Argos, maybe)

I agree.

	26-05-2005 20:11									#17
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Turn sounds good I'm gonna load it up later tonight and see just what all these infrastructure investments have lead to

	26-05-2005 23:26									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Turn is finalized, and posted

Some small additions:

• Changed production in 3 Arcadian bases to Crypteia
  
• Put the Tomcat northeast of FB to foresting that crater tile it just completed a road on

Attachment: acdg-3 - sparta, 2172, final.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).