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cousLee
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Just curious how many of you take a new map, explore the surrounding area a little, then restart (or reload the 4000bc save) and beging your actual game. And what are you thoughts about doing this.
I feel you should have a bit more starting knowledge than what is given you. the AI seems to know the field from the git-go (b-lines to the best sites/resources/and of course you).
I have what seems to be "wrong-way-Corrigan" syndrome. If I don't have a lookie, I can bank on it I will send my first settler/scout to the absolutely worse place it can go.
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cousLee
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I am nearing the finish of my first game, which I did do a reload. It is a giagantic map with max civs on monarch level. I am quite ahead of the game at this point and the remainder of play is going to be either a space ship or a long mop-up. Leaning towards the ship as like I said the map is huge. My next game will be one level higher, and like to share/compare progress. But do not want to handicap the POV because of an early cheat.
I did check out some of the other options (massive kings, civs with scouts) but settled for the babs as I feel they fit my play style the most. I like to build, and the important buildings are the ones with cost discounts (sci/rel) plus I hate the anarchy wait when switching govs. Will play my same "texans" next game as well.
The one thing I did notice when looking for a suitable teaching map was the horrible rng placement for the humans. 99% of the time I was at least one tile away from a more optimal location (ocean access, extra resources, river/lake, ect). I also like to know which direction my first contact will come from. Being armed with that info, made this map a good learner but alas fairly easy once I got out of the ancient age.
Now if I could just work on my bad sence of direction I would be thrilled. lol
thx for the replies. I would not mind some input on my current game, but have a feeling I know what would be said for the most part.
1. don't build every building in every city
2. internal garrisons are a waste (however it does stave off the sneak invasions because the AI can't see any empty cities to target)
3. space the cities tighter.
Aside from those, other input is welcome.
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Richelieu
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Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:36
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I do it all the time (the restart, that is). I never reload a map though.
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Sabre2th
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quote:
Originally posted by Theseus
...After some of the experts starting laying out some of the rules-of-thumb for starts (Aeson here, cracker at CFC), explore/reload became unnecessary. |
I don't think I need the help, but it never hurts to hear other peoples' ideas. Do you happen to know where I might find that discussion?
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cousLee
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Yeah, that would be good reading if you have it.
I finished that map with a SSV. The last 15 turns or so was interesting as complete world war broke out, how ever it was mostly naval activity. The Germans, whom I had spared destruction earlier in the game, decided to try and get some revenge. they never got more than one tile into my territory, and the Greeks and I took them out. The Mayans could have avoided conflict but they had some ivory I really wanted (needed some cool shift knobs for my trucks.... er, tanks).
I started a normal size map on emperor. Got a fair starting location and have Grapes and Furs already in my borders. However the Ottomans have already declared war because i would not give them all my cash. I am trying to get the Philo Freebie and was not gonna stall that persuit. I only have 4 cities at 4,4,2,1 pop. Not sure if this is good or not. It's 1400bc.
I also have met the english, but am way behind in tech as far as I can see. The English do not have philo and I can not offer them writing, the ottomans I can offer writing but they can not offer philo. So it looks ok, but who knows how this will progress.
The 4 cities I have are at optimal spacing, and have temples and barracks in the 4 pops, working on granaries in the other two then temples. I am about to finish my 3rd & 4th worker, then will start building a defensive line of spearmen at the ottoman choke point. I can then move on to expanding westard into the empty areas.
So my ? now would be more along the lines of is this the right early tactic. I don't want to do the archer rush as I would end up wasting my GA on despotism.
I would put a screen shot in this, but have no idea how to do that. I will go ahead and upload it
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cousLee
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Well, that was just plain awsome. I did get Philo first, and took Mapmaking as the free tech as it was the most expensive and wanted to use it for bargining. The shocker was that i got TWO SGL that turn.
I used Philosophy to bargin a peace treaty +tech with the ottomans, then bartered the two (philo&mm) with the english to obtain most of the missing early techs. Then went back to the ottomans to get the rest. I got most of both their gold (about 60g) in the process.
I used one of the SGL to hurry up the pyramids, and sold off the built granaries. this allowed me to drive tech @ 100% a while longer. I decided to persue Lit for libraries and the great library.
Having made peace with the ottomans, I was able to get some much needed settlers built and along with a free one from a hut I will soon have 3 lux for my empire. I also will have horses, but alas there is no iron within my grasp (yet). The Ottomans have some behind their border, and I will get that a bit later one I have several more cities placed.
I got Lit finished and damned if I didn't get another SGL. I was going to save the one for the great library and now I have 2 in reserve. The problem is, I am still in a despot gov, and if I build the GL it will put me into a GA. I need to choose between a GA early or risk another civ building the GL. Not sure which way I should go with that. I do have to option of building the lighthouse with one of them, but not sure if that is going to be the best choice. A lot of wonders are right around the corner.
The English have Currency, Polytheism, which the Ottomans don't. And it would appear that horseback riding is known by some civs I have not seen yet. I need to do some naval exploration to meet these other civs.
A real crossroads decision here. Continue to expand (REX?), or take on the ottomans before they get too many units. And, take the GA and GL or wait for a better use of my SGLs.
Currently it's 900bc.
perhaps this should have it's own thread. I didn't do any reloading, as my starting position was decent (only had to move one space for ocean and river access), and what I seek with this is an open ongoing guidance discussion. This is only my 4th game of civ3, the first two were disasters, the 3rd I won SS. It is my first emperor level game.
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cousLee
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Currently, the English are building the ToA, and the only way I can start on it quickly is to trade Lit for Poly. Also, the Pyramids might trigger a GA for indust/rel/agri civs. the ToA is rel only, and the babs are a rel civ. was not sure if it would trigger a GA or not. So I tested it to see if it would trigger a GA (with reloading the previous trade save in mind). Indeed, the ToA does not trigger a GA, but as soon as it was built the brits started on the GL. Given the choice, the ToA wiuld be the better wonder, esp considering the free culture bump to every new city founded, and as I am still expanding, this is a bonus I can not ignore. if I lose the GL, so be it. I could also let the ottomans have Lit and let them and the english race for it. The ottomans are between the english and myself, so if they did complete it first, i could take it from them. I don't think they have poly, but will have to check that again, as I am sure they would start the GL (keep it close to home).
ToA VS GL....... great strategy debate there.
As for using up the SGL before elite battles, that is not a factor. AFAIK, you can still get a MGL if you have a SGL, but not visa-versa. Once you have a MGL, you can not get any more leaders of any flavor until the MGL is used (which would be quickly anyway).
As for a scientific age, would that not be MUCH better once I am out of despotism, and after I have expanded and grown my cities? The SGA is an increase of currently produced beakers, and frankly, right now I am not producing enough imo to warrent using a sgl for that.
As for not selling my currently built temples, I understand the reasoning for that, but being a rel civ, they are cheap enough to build. And I might need the gold in the meantime. Esp if I let one of the other civs build the GL, I will have to continue driving science.
Which brings up another question of persuit. Should I aim for monarchy or republic........ They both have their own benefits. Although the GQB(garrison quell bonus) under monarchy might be really needed once the ToA becomes obsolete.
Thanks for the replies, a good discussion thread is as fun as the game being talked about. Hey, if anyone wants me to upload the 4000bc save so you can try your hand at this map, it would not be a problem. 
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joncnunn
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Maryland Heights, MO
Sep 2002
time: 23:36
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You've already built the Pryamids. ToA is a strict subset of the traights the Pryamids are, so building the ToA will not trigure your GA no matter who your playing.
To get your GA from wonder combos, it's whenever you build a wonder it checks to see if you now own wonders representing all your traights.
Note that ToA in the epic is only really worth going after when you have a SGL and can build it for free. 500 shields for a wonder that expires with Education is just too much. 0 shields though changes the equation completly.
Selling temples also would result in the 1000 year cultural doubling now being counting from the ToA and not the original ones. Plus when ToA expire and the new Temples expire you have to build yet another Temple. While the ToA is in force, your preexisting Temples won't cost maintence. So you are much better off keeping the Temples.
Scientic Age is competly broken in Conquests 1.22.
On which govt, since you are Religious, you do have the feasibility of switching govts when not in your GA. I don't know enough about your map, but it depends upon weather you have enough size 7+ cities & Market places to support the army you'd need to keep the peace and also the luxaries and Marketplaces to keep your citizens content. If you decide to be a war mongler, you might want to consider Fedulism when you enter the MA. Prior to Conquests a Religious civ would always beeline to Monarchy first simply because Monarchy was always faster to get to. Conquests though made Republic possible to get to much faster, including as the free tech. Conquests also made Market Places somewhat less important but having size 7+ cities much more important for Republic.
You've got the MGL / SGL thing backwards.
The check for forming a new MGL is:
1. Did an Elite win? If so,
2. Do I already have a Great Leader [left in from Vanilla] If not
3. Check the RNG. (Higher chance with HE than without]
The check for SGL is:
1. Do I have a tech no one else does? If so
2. Check the RNG. (Higher chance for sci civs)
quote:
Originally posted by cousLee
Currently, the English are building the ToA, and the only way I can start on it quickly is to trade Lit for Poly. Also, the Pyramids might trigger a GA for indust/rel/agri civs.
ToA VS GL....... great strategy debate there.
As for using up the SGL before elite battles, that is not a factor. AFAIK, you can still get a MGL if you have a SGL, but not visa-versa. Once you have a MGL, you can not get any more leaders of any flavor until the MGL is used (which would be quickly anyway).
As for a scientific age, would that not be MUCH better once I am out of despotism, and after I have expanded and grown my cities? The SGA is an increase of currently produced beakers, and frankly, right now I am not producing enough imo to warrent using a sgl for that.
As for not selling my currently built temples, I understand the reasoning for that, but being a rel civ, they are cheap enough to build. And I might need the gold in the meantime. Esp if I let one of the other civs build the GL, I will have to continue driving science.
Which brings up another question of persuit. Should I aim for monarchy or republic........ They both have their own benefits. Although the GQB(garrison quell bonus) under monarchy might be really needed once the ToA becomes obsolete.
Thanks for the replies, a good discussion thread is as fun as the game being talked about. Hey, if anyone wants me to upload the 4000bc save so you can try your hand at this map, it would not be a problem. |
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cousLee
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Yeah, I forgot about the culture time doubling on the temples. Thats a very good reason to not sell them. I had never built the ToA before so was unfamiliar with all that goes with it. I went ahead and did the trade, with the Ottomans, and built the ToA. considering the time thing, I kinda regret it a little. Temples are cheap for the Babs to build and really not that intensive. I am enjoying the border strech tho. It would be best imo if the ToA didn't obsolete. The other "place a building" wonders don't. But alas too late for that consideration.
I used the second leader for SunZu's. That really is a great wonder. I can have many unit building cities. nothing like an instant (almost) army.
The English have been very stingy with their techs and i am quite annoyed with them, when my army finally does roll through the Ottomans, they will not be stopping at the border. The english had started building SunZu's and are pissed off enough to start demanding things. I was 1st to get invention and got another SGL, which I used right then for Leo's workshop. Invention was the one tech the English wanted bad enough to trade their two techs for, plus I cleaned out the Ottomans bank account + GPT for it. I knew if I traded to one, the other would get it too, so why not. Also, getting the gold and GPT, I can continue to drive research going for gunpowder.
The Vikings, of all civs, built the Great Library. I recently came in contact with them, so they will have to be my primary trading target. they also have tech parity with myself, the English, and the Babs. The Aztecs, whom share a continent with the Celts, are in bringing up a close rear, but are a couple of techs behind the big 4. All the others I have met so far are still only at mid- ancient age.
I chose monarcy and have made the switch. I have not hit my GA yet, but that wil be soon as my UU are heading the the "massive barbarian uprising" to try for some elites before moving them back across my empire to engage the ottomans. At least that is the plan. Would not be suprized tho if the Ottomans declare war as soon as the bulk of my army is the 8-9 turns away from the border.
quote:
You've got the MGL / SGL thing backwards.
The check for forming a new MGL is:
1. Did an Elite win? If so,
2. Do I already have a Great Leader [left in from Vanilla] If not
3. Check the RNG. (Higher chance with HE than without]
The check for SGL is:
1. Do I have a tech no one else does? If so
2. Check the RNG. (Higher chance for sci civs) |
After re-reading the thread on this subject, that is correct. The debate was a bit confusing for a while and my memory is certainly not perfect. thanks for the refresh.
Last edited by cousLee on 04-06-2005 at 06:55
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25-05-2005 11:04
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