23-07-2005 00:56									#31
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A small bump for this thread.

Is anyone actually anticipating this game?

	23-07-2005 01:30									#32
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Not really.

	23-07-2005 02:40									#33
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I have access to the beta and right now it's pretty uninteresting as a game since there's little ai and little or no tech tree. But the game looks it will be good. I'm really waiting for the ai to show up. If it's as interesting as that og Galciv, then it'll prove to be a good game.

	27-07-2005 05:42									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Is anyone actually anticipating this game?

I am.

Particuarly with regard to the expanded editting/scripting features.
GC is a bit of a joke in this respect (the only 'triggered' effect available seems to be to end the game) but I'm hoping Dreadlords will actually have some functionality.

	27-07-2005 13:19									#35
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Did they say something about more triggers for events? I don't remember it.

	30-07-2005 04:20									#36
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I long ago pre-ordered this game. Been enjoying the betas, seeing the changes. It's got a lot of promise, and it is slowly living up to it. At least, so far. But we still have a couple more phases to go, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

	01-08-2005 07:14									#37
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare Did they say something about more triggers for events? I don't remember it.

I went back to the GC2 forum looking for the thread where it was mentioned but I can't find it.
You've got me worried now.
I hope it isn't something they've dropped ...

	02-08-2005 03:49									#38
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I remember they stated that you would be able to string together events. And that modders would be able to do the same thing. Don't recall seeing any precise details given other then that, though.

	05-08-2005 01:31									#39
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Having examined some more screenshots, I'm a little disapppointed by some of the stuff I've noticed.

For example, I don't think there's any need for 'farms' in a space strategy game. It's just pointless busy-work for the player.

	05-08-2005 03:46									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman For example, I don't think there's any need for 'farms' in a space strategy game. It's just pointless busy-work for the player.

Whereas there is a need for factories? I'm not sure I understand.

I think it's much better than GC1 where you could build one of everything.

	05-08-2005 11:22									#41
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Did I say there was a need for factories? Farms just annoy me more. Space-faring civilizations with anti-matter, neutronium and nanobots shouldn't have to worry about whether they're producing enough wheat.

	05-08-2005 12:02									#42
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I think providing food for population is one of the most interesting elements of empire building games. Games do not have to be completely realistic, but you would not form colonies of your empire in places where your people would starve to death. Farms, their number or quality just further represents how good is a colony or planet in maintaining sufficient food supply.

Some RTS do not worry about that aspect of empire building, but TBS can.

	05-08-2005 15:35									#43
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You can signify a planet's suitability for colonization without resorting to tedious build-a-farm minigames.

	05-08-2005 19:08									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Did I say there was a need for factories? Farms just annoy me more.

I thought you were complaining about farms specifically; but it sounds like it's actually the planetary management system in general you don't like?

quote: Originally posted by Sandman Space-faring civilizations with anti-matter, neutronium and nanobots shouldn't have to worry about whether they're producing enough wheat.

People do still need to eat, but I agree one could argue that it would be a trivial task compared to the other manufacturing, research, etc. buildings that compete for space. There are plenty of points of realism where GalCiv fails. Space for example.

quote: Originally posted by Sandman You can signify a planet's suitability for colonization without resorting to tedious build-a-farm minigames.

Yeah. That's what they did in GC1, and it seems to me it ended up making empires quite dependant on the map generator. Granted, balance is not so much of a problem in a single player-only game, but everything being so dependant on the map generator was not a good point of 1 IMO.

Of course, I suppose they could have different kinds of PQs for farming, manufacturing, etc. Like in MOO2 with the difference between planet fertility/habitability and minability. Thing is, that determines the planet's limits and focus for the player rather than giving them an opportunity to choose.

I agree there's potential for tedium and mind-boggling micromanagement, but Stardock has said the governors will be quite capable of upgrading structures by themselves. Hopefully, the game will meet the ideal of being able to set out the building infrastructure when first colonizing, and then forget about it whenever there aren't soil enhancement-type stuff or wonders to think about.

	06-08-2005 00:38									#45
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Since you can plan all your constructions in advance, it's not really tedious to put farms and factories on the map. The problem in the current beta is there's so little tech and little discontent that it's quite hard to see what it'll give in the finished game, but I think having planets with nice production spots (for food or tech or industry - mining I've still to understand or they need to put mining buildings) makes planets separate and more interesting than the simple figures they were in GC. You had PQ17 and PQ22, now you will have planets that you can care about.

	06-08-2005 03:48									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman You can signify a planet's suitability for colonization without resorting to tedious build-a-farm minigames.

Actually, farming = people. It's how StarDock has responded to the gaming community's demand for a way to better micromanage their worlds.

In GC1, all worlds suitability was a very simple thing. But this made all worlds virtual carbon copies as to how the players managed them. This meant that worlds were only important for the ships they made.

In GC2, StarDock has decided to "Tile Up" the worlds. Players will be able to put different kinds of facilities on a planet's usable tiles. This is much more of an "Acsendancy" approach. Players will be able to specialize worlds (ie, make an industry heavy world, or a high population world to tax for money, or a world devoted to just research, etc etc etc), or players can build a balanced world.

Right now, Farms = People. If you want a lot of people on that world, you need a lot of farms. There is a minimal number of people to work a bunch of tiles, but most worlds only need 1 Farm (so far) to provide for all workers. Making more food results in more people, which can be taxed for more money.

Farms are being used to control the local people and direct taxes.

The truth is that in any game featuring biologicals, you will need something to determine max people. You can do it by housing (Acsendancy) or Food (MoO2) or both(Civ). The more you do it with, the more micro-management you risk forcing on the game-player.

I personally don't find farms out of place in SF games. I don't like spending a lot of time worrying about it, but when you run an empire, you do need to make sure your have enough food for your people. Just part of being a good God-Emperor, after all.

	06-08-2005 03:52									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Of course, I suppose they could have different kinds of PQs for farming, manufacturing, etc. Like in MOO2 with the difference between planet fertility/habitability and minability. Thing is, that determines the planet's limits and focus for the player rather than giving them an opportunity to choose.

Geography is destiny.

	06-08-2005 12:23									#48
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I agree that Galciv went overboard with its single planet quality rating, but now I think that the new attempt at distinctive planets is overly complex for what it's trying to deliver. What's the point in a gameplay feature that's turned over to the AI 90% of the time?

Other ways to make planets interesting:

Mix planet classes with quality ratings. A level 3 desert planet would be uninhabitable, whilst a level 6 desert planet would be useable. And they could both be terraformed to higher levels.

Planet/production dependencies. For example, bioships that can only be built on ocean planets. Or super-heavy capital ships that can only be built on a planet with very heavy industry. Or certain techs that can only be researched if you own a certain type of planet.

	06-08-2005 18:23									#49
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quote: What's the point in a gameplay feature that's turned over to the AI 90% of the time?

I don't see myself turning that to the ai. In Galciv, you built buildings in a planet. Now you build them in tiles, which limits the number of buildings. That's the only difference. I don't see this as a huge change, but it can make planets more interesting to handle as you will have to make some choices. In particular if you really want to take on that small PQ 5 planet.

	06-08-2005 21:37									#50
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What's the terraforming like?

	07-08-2005 00:12									#51
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Soil Enhancement is in the beta.

On a planet, usable tiles are bordered in a color. Most will be green, showing you can build there whenever/whatever you want. Sometimes, though, there will be a yellow tile, perhaps even two. These you can only build a Soil Enhancement building on; once this building is complete, it disappears and the tile turns green, ready for a building.

I believe I've read that there are plans for a second type of red tiles that you can terraform with a different tech, just like there were two terraforming buildings in GC1.

	07-08-2005 00:29									#52
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Currently teraforming is handled this way:
There are some tiles that require you to take special action to terraform them into usable tiles. This effectively means you can increase the PQ of certain planets by 1 or 2, depending on the number of tiles that can be terraformed. I don't know how much terraforming will be available later in the game as the beta progresses. Probably we'll have more tiles that can be upgraded as tech level increases.

	31-08-2005 09:54									#53
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Wanted to mention something about the farms.

In GalCiv I, one of the frustrating "mechanics" was trying to keep your people happy. The player really had little control over the happiness of the people.

The population of a planet would essentially grow up to a very high limit based on planet qulaity or until the people got so angry they didn't reproduce anymore.

So in GalCiv II, we decided to make food the limiting factor. A "farm" or "anti-mater based substinance replicator" or whatever you want to call it can only feed X millions of users. As a result, players can control their top-level population by limiting the number of farms they build.

The mechanics have stayed very straight forward:

Farms allow for higher population. Population = Tax revenue.

Research labs = research production.

Factories = Industrial production (for ship building and improvement building).

There are lots of other things you can build on your planet but those are the 3 things that affect actual production types.

	31-08-2005 15:53									#54
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quote: Space-faring civilizations with anti-matter, neutronium and nanobots shouldn't have to worry about whether they're producing enough wheat.

This quote reminded me of "The Foundation" series wherein the capital of the Empire was a planet completely covered by a giant city. Its significant strategic weakness was the fact that it had to import all of its food.

	12-09-2005 03:14									#55
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I would have liked to have seen a 3-dimensional starmap, and also the ability to create galaxies of arbitrary size.

(I like playing really *huge* strategy games)

	12-09-2005 03:29									#56
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"asking for hundreds of hand-crafted planets would be like asking for a wargame to make each and every one of its units 'hand-crafted'..

it's asking for vaporware"

It's asking for the ability to import mods. I don't see why this should be so hard. Bundle in a "planet editor" applet and allow the game to import saved planets. So people can create and swap their creations.

	12-09-2005 07:48									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Draginol In GalCiv I, one of the frustrating "mechanics" was trying to keep your people happy. The player really had little control over the happiness of the people. The population of a planet would essentially grow up to a very high limit based on planet qulaity or until the people got so angry they didn't reproduce anymore. ...

I think this is actually quite good direction of a game feature. The fixing of the problem might be, however, in giving the player more options as to how make people happy or control them. Player would have to choose then from several possible ways of dealing with it. This would give a lot of room for various strategies. Some examples:

- state funded entertainment, special buildings, etc.
- birth control systems (negative effects though - population might not like it)
- emigration programs.
- mind control programs (severe negative effects)

	12-09-2005 12:13									#58
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"- state funded entertainment, special buildings, etc.
- birth control systems (negative effects though - population might not like it)
- emigration programs.
- mind control programs (severe negative effects)"

And which would be limited by government type no forced sterility programs in Star Federations... although Indira Ghandi got away with it for a while)

	15-09-2005 00:28									#59
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quote: Originally posted by mart7x5 Each planet having its own map has been already implemented in Emperor of the fading Suns. Quite nice idea.

Emperor of the Fading Suns ... now there is a name I've not heard in a very long time. I enjoyed the game .... until I ran into what sure seemed like a counter limitation. Dug all over the web trying to find a fix (it seemed like a bug to me). Was it?

Other than that the game had a lot of promise, I quite enjoyed the interaction of the planetary conflict with the greater picture. Two strategy games for the price of one, but even better they related to each other.

I for one, am looking forward to seeing what GalCiv 2 looks like. I think ship design is a must. It has always been one of my favorite bits of MOO1 (MOO2 never caught me the way MOO1 did ... the racial skill that allowed research of all techs seemed too unbalancing ... IMO). Some of the best wars were ones where a well designed fleet was able to upset huge odds.

I also like the idea of a more individualized planetary control. My memory of GalCiv 1 was that it had universal settings for taxation etc. This was plain silly! Of course I am going to give the struggling planet a break to allow it to grow ... but this does not mean my other 20 fully established, thriving planets should be given the same break.

	19-09-2005 10:23									#60
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I remember Stars! had such taxation exempt option.