25-05-2005 18:02									#1
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Just wondering guys, which of the following features:

HERE: http://www.galciv2.com/Databanks.aspx

for GalCiv II do you think is the most compelling that might convince you to purchase the game and 'upgrade'?

Personally I'm a tad bit worried about increased complexity especially in planetary colonization, ship building, and fleet composition, but I like the innovations of different types of star bases, the streamlined tech tree, I also like how they scaled the 3D mode for less tech-heavy users, and the ability to create custom alien races.

I love customization- as long as it doesn't take place during the game. During the game, I like to get sucked into it- like in Civ II. However, toolsets outside of the game for editing are amazing in adding replay value and I made a point to purchase games which I could 'mod.'

So... how about you? What are your opinions?

-dc

	25-05-2005 19:40									#2
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Yes i like the idea of GalcivII. But i haven't been able to find time to play the first one properly yet - so that needs to be done first for me.

I think Brad is taking his efforts away from the the mainstream, and i like that. I get the impression that Galciv didnt quite hit the mark, but it obviously did well enough to provide him with a base to do some more on the genre.

As for customisation - its something i like in my games; wether its changing all my Xcom soilders names to S48 T50 H40 B25 etc, searching Daggerfall/Morrowind for the best looking outfit/weapons for my character, modding my ship in Elite or many other things. I like to be able to project my own persona/preferences into my games.

Do i want to pay £40(for example) for an unfinished game/do i want to encourage developers to produce unfinished software(more than they currently do)?

No - unless it was a really amazing game and the effort i was to put in would be worth it, and the game was priced accordingly.

Do i care for AAA graphics? Well not in the current trend of graphics over gameplay. So i can happily live without the part of games that costs the most to currently do.

	26-05-2005 01:06									#3
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Ship Design: Meh. Every space strategy game has this... it's fun, but is it really that important? I wouldn't mind seeing a 4X game which uses a handful of archetypes, like EU.

Unique Planets: Yeah! The solitary planet class in the first one was fairly dull. But adding 'artifacts' or 'ore' is still only reaching the standard set by MOO, years ago.

I'd like a 4X game with hundreds of 'hand-crafted' planets; not just random convergences of stats, but unique, compelling worlds with their own natural histories.

New Map System: This sounds interesting. It's not realistic... but that's hardly an issue with space strategy games anyway.

Play as any race: Meh. I always instinctively pick the humans, and I don't mind it when other races are excluded.

Fleets: I like the idea that the player has a logistic skill which limits the size of fleet you can amass. Could be very interesting.

Enhanced Combat System: Bleh. It sounds like an explicit stones-paper-scissors arrangement.. never a good idea in strategy games, because it precludes strategy in favour of luck. Less tangible aspects like initiative, logistics, flexibility and intelligence should play a role in deciding battles as well.

A final note: I really hope that they bring an end to the 'colonists = soldiers' mechanic common in 4X games. Not likely though.

Last edited by Sandman on 05-08-2005 at 01:05

	26-05-2005 07:48									#4
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I am just hoping that those screenshots are indicative of the whole visual experience.

And a better AI? That should be interesting.

	26-05-2005 20:04									#5
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asking for hundreds of hand-crafted planets would be like asking for a wargame to make each and every one of its units 'hand-crafted'..

it's asking for vaporware

	27-05-2005 02:19									#6
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I'm fairly sure you get strategy games with hundreds of unit types...

	27-05-2005 19:04									#7
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Unique planets

At last, everything but dumb planet (or city in Civ) planification. Economic specialization exist and it is crucial... which should shine in GC2.

	28-05-2005 16:28									#8
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quote: Personally I'm a tad bit worried about increased complexity especially in planetary colonization, ship building, and fleet composition

Actually, in the beta, there is part of this and nothing looks like it's going to get out of control.
Planets: Instead of building as many improvements as you wanted , and only once each, you can now build only (PQ) ones, but can build some more than once. You need some food to get pop to work in factories, but that's quite clean and easy to manage.
Ship building is nothing out of the ordinary (MoO did it more than 10 years ago).
Fleets are not yet coded so we have little idea what they'll do either early in the betas or when the game is out.

	30-05-2005 05:02									#9
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare Ship building is nothing out of the ordinary (MoO did it more than 10 years ago).

Shipbuilding worries me a little too. MoO wasn't too bad but with the increasing complexity of MoO2 the AI really suffered with regard to ship designs and counter-designs (ie: It didn't have counter-designs).
If you throw in players adding in custom-designed weapons/shields/devices Stardock is going to have their work cut out for them.

	30-05-2005 08:52									#10
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LDiCaesare,

well, I just worry that the game may go in the direction of Star Generals with fleets, etc. While the concept was nice- and the implementation worked well, the game just didn't addict.

Simplicity addicts. Complexity confuses.

For what you mentioned about the planets- I don't see how that simplifies things.

As for designing ships- it just doesn't seem that necessary to me- yes I know that Alpha Centauri had that feature as well, but I never used it- I wanted to play the main game, not tweak and mini-game... though if the game allows the 'main types' as someone above mentioned... and permitted further modifications should people wish it, then okay- I'd have no trouble. I think that AC managed the best implementation of this feture.

Never played Master of Orion, so I can't comment on that.

Thanks for your feedback.

	30-05-2005 21:00									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Ship Design: Meh. Every space strategy game has this... it's fun, but is it really that important? I wouldn't mind seeing a 4X game which uses a handful of archetypes, like EU.

Gal Civ 1 didn't have this.... and yes, it really is that important. The lack of ship design was the thing I disliked most about GalCiv 1. Cookie Cutter units just don't cut it in a Sci-Fi game.

	30-05-2005 23:06									#12
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I'd say it was more the hobbling micro-management. Dozens upon dozens of planetary improvements, base enhancements and techs. Would adding ship components to this list really add to the fun?

	02-06-2005 07:39									#13
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I'd rather design ships than build all that crap on the planet. Its a freaking war game...how about concentrating on the war part.

Combat tactics and strat are more important that building another food blah-blah on the 14th planet. Part of the strat is going with your ships.

	02-06-2005 08:57									#14
	Re: Compelling Features Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Personally I'm a tad bit worried about increased complexity especially in planetary colonization, ship building, and fleet composition

Funny, this is exactly what got me to pre-order. GalCiv 1 was one of those games I felt I should like, but ultimately didn't work for me. The planetary management system, which was indeed dull and didn't really have much in the way of choices, played no small part in that. The GalCiv 2 Beta has already fulfilled my hopes of planets that must be crafted uniquely by the player, and so long as good AI is put in to handle all the upgrades and such for the player, I don't think this new system will result in any more turn-by-turn micromanagement than the first GalCiv.

	02-06-2005 17:34									#15
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quote: The GalCiv 2 Beta has already fulfilled my hopes of planets that must be crafted uniquely by the player, and so long as good AI is put in to handle all the upgrades and such for the player, I don't think this new system will result in any more turn-by-turn micromanagement than the first GalCiv.

Hmm... if their governors are as smart as Alpha Centauris, then hey, I'd give it a try

	03-06-2005 23:30									#16
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Ship design main interest in Galciv is that you have to chose which weapon and defense you want from a kind of rock-paper-scissors system. It forces you to make some decisions, such as adapting you fleet against a given enemy. The previous system(GC1) had little or no diversity in terms of ships, making fights and military research a bit silly. You just had to find the better tech or you'd be beaten. Modding couldn't change much except by creating big defensive ships. The only available diversity was the missiles, of which there was ONE (the AMM). To me, getting Dreadnought tech (AMM) ment winning the game. That was a bit of a pity.

	03-06-2005 23:40									#17
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BTW, unless this changes from Beta 1, you can fit multiple types of weapons on a ship. It's just a question of whether you have the space on the ship design to do so, and whether you've done the right research into that branch of defense/offense to have good enough stuff to bother building. It's not all-or-nothing where you must pick one type of weapon and one type of defense.

	10-06-2005 15:22									#18
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First, I have to admit, that after having the GalCiv (I) for a couple of weeks, I got bored with it and sold it. The way it presented the galactic environment did not quite suit me. As for the GalCiv (II), the first 3 features on that site will definitely enhance the game:

- ship design
- new unique planets
- new map system

Each planet having its own map has been already implemented in Emperor of the fading Suns. Quite nice idea. From screenshots I noticed it will be kinda Mercator view. There might be found some better graphical way to do it, but I have no idea now how to do it. Ascendancy maybe had something like that too, if I remember correctly, but it was a perspective grid with planet in background. Galciv is better here.

Planets on actual map, that is what I like maybe the most. After all, star systems occupy the same space as stars. It was weird like in Master of Orion, that planets were like "hidden" inside stars.

And one more remark. Probably the thing, which I did not like the most in GalCiv (I) was that special events were not unique at all. There was quite limited number of them, and I were getting many of them numerous times during the same game - it was killing uniqueness of them. If there are some unique animals in the Galaxy, it is strange that I see the same animals in many distant from each other places. If (II) might attend that issue, that would be great.

	10-06-2005 18:54									#19
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quote: Each planet having its own map has been already implemented in Emperor of the fading Suns. Quite nice idea. From screenshots I noticed it will be kinda Mercator view

Never heard of that game, but I seem to remember in Imperium Galactaca that each planet was different.
--
as for the special events- I think that people could design extra ones on the net and taht you could have downloaded them from his site.

However, they could get repetitive as you stated- if you've ever tried out nationstates.net, then you know that there are only a limited number of issues that arise when governing a nation.

I really suggest that Mr. Wardell looks at Nationstates and plays if for a while to get an idea of a broader group of issues to include in his game.

	12-06-2005 17:40									#20
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I agree with the previous comment on "molding" ships. compelling, but draws a fine line between adding to the game and making it too complex. If I am on a Gigantic Map, I dont have time to determine how I mod every single Corvette, even if features are included to make it less tedious, it takes away from the "global" parts of the game that made GalCiv good (trade, diplo, subterfuge).

I hope certain segments of the game are improved:

The beginning - always a bum rush to settle (same manner every time, less variety than in normal Civ)

Constructors - good concept. not enough done to reign is runaway growth though. Constructors->more production->more constructors. Yes you have to reign in your financial outlays eventually, but you get the point.

	12-06-2005 23:32									#21
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quote: Originally posted by CiverDan I agree with the previous comment on "molding" ships. compelling, but draws a fine line between adding to the game and making it too complex. If I am on a Gigantic Map, I dont have time to determine how I mod every single Corvette, even if features are included to make it less tedious, it takes away from the "global" parts of the game that made GalCiv good (trade, diplo, subterfuge).

It's not something you do for every single ship you build. You design a specific class of ship (for example, "Corvette") and it goes on the build queue. Then you build as many or as little of them as you like.

So you could play a game designing tons of different ships with which to have a varied fleet, but you could also stick to designing only a few mainstays at a time.

quote: Originally posted by CiverDan The beginning - always a bum rush to settle (same manner every time, less variety than in normal Civ)

I'm not sure if this will be solved, TBH. But all I've seen is Beta 1, so it's certainly possible.

quote: Originally posted by CiverDan Constructors - good concept. not enough done to reign is runaway growth though. Constructors->more production->more constructors. Yes you have to reign in your financial outlays eventually, but you get the point.

Logistics will be in, though I don't know if in quite the same way as GalCiv 1. (And to be honest, I'm not entirely sure how GalCiv 1 Logistics works; never played a full game with it. But I imagine having higher and higher costs to found and maintain each starbase will apply.) Also, starbases will be specialized in to different types; a starbase mining a resource can't do anything other starbase things like increasing production or culture, etc.

	15-06-2005 09:59									#22
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Hmmm. So?
Anybody with thoughts on Beta 2 (released yesterday)?

ie: Regarding any new/altered features etc?

Inquiring minds want to know.

	15-06-2005 10:24									#23
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Beta 2 was released???

Ack! Must get and try tomorrow. Non-galactic civilizations have been keeping my attention off stardock.

	17-06-2005 02:46									#24
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I've played some of the Beta now (and caught a few more bugs ). Things are more polished now, but there are still features missing (diplomacy, starbases) so I still can't really make any review of the game.

	17-06-2005 05:59									#25
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It's the new map system that's got me sold. My main beef with GalCiv 1 was that space was so empty and featureless.

	17-06-2005 06:43									#26
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...But that's how space really is

	17-06-2005 07:06									#27
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... and if we're talking about realism here, FTL drive is quite fantastic. Your leader character would die by the time you reached the next system.

	21-06-2005 06:03									#28
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud ...But that's how space really is

But it's no fun. It would be fine if the only way to get between systems was along hyperspace routes or something - anything to create something more strategic than straightline movement between any point A and point B.

	27-06-2005 01:55									#29
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It would be nice if there was more strategic diversity. How about certain ship upgrades which depend on proximity to the nearest star? For example, solar arrays which give improved performance when the ship is close to a star. Or a cloaking device which only works in the depths of interstellar space.

	27-06-2005 03:55									#30
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Terrain would definitely improve things. We betaers have yet to see what terrain will be like, though; I guess that'll be a thing of Beta 3