26-05-2005 19:19									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Ming So...

So let the federal government fund it rather than burdening State's by burdening them with the added cost and forcing them to become agents of the federal government. I'm not even convinced it's a good idea to begin with.

	26-05-2005 19:27									#32
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH http://www.newscientist.com/channel.../mg18625004.500 Unbelievable. How can they just quietly pass that without any fuss?

There is a lot of stuff in the bill that slipped under the dead of night.

	26-05-2005 19:27									#33
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quote: Originally posted by DeathByTheSword the biggest problem i see here...is that they want to use a system that can read it from a couple of meters away without you knowing...that is sick and so big brother is watching you...

I agree. The ID card as such is no problem, but this part doesn't sound good at all.

	26-05-2005 19:32									#34
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quote: You will have to show your ID to get on a bus or a train?!

Remember that few people take intercity buses or trains. A vast number of people take airplanes, for which you already need to present ID. Others rent a car, for which you already need to present ID in the normal course of business and besides which you have to have while driving

I don't know how this slipped through on the supplemental, but I guess that we haven't heard the last of it. What can be done in the dark of night, can be undone in the light of day.

The federal government now requires ID to get into any of its buildings. But I can't see this extended to state or local government buildings by federal government fiat.

	26-05-2005 19:32									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Like I stated in other discussions on having a national Id card... I don't see the problem here. I already carry a drivers license, which has my SS number, Address and picture on it already. I have to validate that info when I get it. This doesn't really change anything. I guess if you are criminal, or illegally in this country, one might consider it a problem...

I don't carry a drivers licence. In fact I'm not sure where mine is, haven't driven for 10 years and have little intention of doing so.

And don't tell me you've never broken the law because I'm pretty sure you have at some point.

	26-05-2005 19:45									#36
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH I don't carry a drivers licence. In fact I'm not sure where mine is, haven't driven for 10 years and have little intention of doing so. And don't tell me you've never broken the law because I'm pretty sure you have at some point.

I think Ming's missing the point between voluntarily carrying some non-governmentally decreed items of identification and being compelled to carry a government issued i.d. card.

If you don't want to carry a driver's licence, then don't. Use public transport- it's healthier. You don't need to buy a photo i.d. card to travel on buses, tubes or trains either- you can pay cash.


You aren't compelled to carry a British passport at all times, or your National Insurance card.


It isn't (yet) against the law to leave one's residence in Great Britain without any form of identification, nor does a police officer have the right to stop you and ask for it without showing due cause.

	26-05-2005 19:46									#37
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You can still get by just fine in the US without carrying ID even with this law, if you're not going out of town.

I don't have a car and I don't have the need to carry my ID, although I do anyways, because I would forget it when I need it otherwise.

	26-05-2005 19:49									#38
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quote: Originally posted by DanS You can still get by just fine in the US without carrying ID if you're not going out of town.

But if you travel from the Delaware Soviet to the Kansas Soviet you need to show your travel papers to the security police, yes ?

	26-05-2005 19:50									#39
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Not if you walk or bicycle between the two!

	26-05-2005 19:52									#40
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Not if you walk or bicycle between the two!

A bicycle ? They have such luxury goods in the People's Republic of Bushdonia ?



Or is this generous aid from Albania ?

	26-05-2005 19:53									#41
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom But if you travel from the Delaware Soviet to the Kansas Soviet you need to show your travel papers to the security police, yes ?

Not Soviet, but Soviet Socialist Republic.

	26-05-2005 19:54									#42
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OK, you can Segway between the two soviets, if you choose. No ID required.

	26-05-2005 19:56									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Saras Not Soviet, but Soviet Socialist Republic.

I shortened it to allow for the diminished attention span of Soviet Bushdonians.


A diet of black and white television shows about tractors and potato harvests diminishes their capacity for comprehending phrases with more then averagely lengthy words.

	26-05-2005 20:01									#44
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it's SSR then. Nevada SSR, New York SSR and so on

Hey! We also had "nu, pogodi!"

http://www.skazochki.narod.ru/video/nupogodi1.rm

	26-05-2005 20:08									#45
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom I shortened it to allow for the diminished attention span of Soviet Bushdonians. A diet of black and white television shows about tractors and potato harvests diminishes their capacity for comprehending phrases with more then averagely lengthy words.

For conscience' sake, I suggest that the US import more Chinese colour television sets.

	26-05-2005 20:10									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Saras it's SSR then. Nevada SSR, New York SSR and so on

They'd only confuse SSR with SR toothpaste smuggled in on the black market from Canada or Mexico.

'Soviet' is only two syllables, and sounds touchingly close to 'Elmer, we thurr yet ?' a sound often heard as the citizens of the People's Democratic Republic of Bushdonia share a unicycle to work in the people's potato fields or the Women's Harvester Maintenance Sheds.

	26-05-2005 20:13									#48
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if you go to the biking groups on Usenet, you will find a certain guy (usenet kook?) who specifically bikes in order to avoid having to carry ID, which he doesnt believe in. He says hes never driven (or at least not in years) cause he doesnt want to carry ID.

In fact not only can you get from place to place by bike without ID, but at least in the northeast you can in theory get pretty far by trains and buses that are not considered "intercity" For ex you can get from DC to practically the Delaware line on a commuter train, and then walk to Newark, Del and catch another commuter train to Philly, and then a commuter train to Trenton, and then another to New York, and then another to New Haven, CT, and then another all the way to New London, CT. Alternatively you can take the Long Island RR to Orient Pt and catch a ferry to New London.

You can get from DC to Baltimore without even taking the commuter RR. You can take the metro to New Carrolton, then a metrobus to Annapolis, and then an MTA (baltimore area local) bus to downtown Baltimore.

	26-05-2005 20:25									#49
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Not anymore. Now you'll need ID on those too.

But the terrorists can still cycle.

	26-05-2005 20:30									#50
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I don't think it would be enforceable on commuter rail.

Mad props to LotM for his creativity.

	26-05-2005 20:30									#51
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Not anymore. Now you'll need ID on those too. But the terrorists can still cycle.

No, i'll have to check the legislation, but Im quite sure it wont effect local metros, or local buses.

Im not sure about commuter trains.

	26-05-2005 20:35									#52
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Not anymore. Now you'll need ID on those too.

The law we are discussing only changes what is considered acceptable ID, it makes NO changes to where ID is required. If there are changes to where ID is required, that you know of, please provide a cite.

	26-05-2005 20:36									#53
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Pretty soon, I will not have just any ID card, I will have a MICROSOFT (R) ID card !

quote: Originally posted by microsoft The Belgian Government has recently approved full roll-out of the eID Card. eID stands for Electronic Identity Card, an initiative from FEDict - FOD Informatie- en Communicatietechnologie (www.fedict.be) - , whereby every citizen will eventually receive a smart card based eID Card. By end-2005, it can be expected that about 3.000.000 eID cards will be distributed in Belgium. We anticipate that this massive roll-out will result in many applications that are eID compliant. Microsoft is preparing an eID Awareness and Training campaign towards Microsoft Partners, ISV's and System Integrators.

	26-05-2005 20:45									#54
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The question is, do subways count as trains/buses?

	26-05-2005 20:46									#55
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further, the Greyhound website does NOT indicate any requirement to carry ID of any kind, OTHER than for travel to or from Canada or Mexico. In contrast to the Amtrak website, which does indicate a requirement for photo ID.

AFAICT there is NO requirement for ID on buses, even intercity buses, nor does RealID create such a requirement.

	26-05-2005 20:49									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Admiral The question is, do subways count as trains/buses?

actually, I see no indication that there is a govt requirement for ID on railroads. Amtraks website implies this is a policy adopted by Amtrak, not at legislative or regulatory directive.

	26-05-2005 20:51									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Saras Not Soviet, but Soviet Socialist Republic.

Hes obviously refering to the Soviets themselves.

	26-05-2005 21:22									#58
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom I think Ming's missing the point between voluntarily carrying some non-governmentally decreed items of identification and being compelled to carry a government issued i.d. card.

No... you are. Please show me where they are saying that the govenement is compelling us to carry a government issued i.d. card. Yeah, if you want to enter a governement building or travel, you need to have one... not the same thing.

But frankly, I have no problem with having a federally mandidated ID card. There are many times where identification is needed, and I think it would be better to have ONE consistent form that is accepted for everything and hard to duplicate/forge.

However, I would have a problem if they were proposing random checks on the street... but they are NOT proposing that... they already ask for an ID to board a plane... so there is nothing really new here.

	26-05-2005 21:28									#59
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quote: One possibility is RFID tags that can be read from a few metres away without you ever realising.

Stupidest. Idea. Ever.

	26-05-2005 21:51									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Probably not "everywhere else" (certainly not in countries with a strong Anglo political tradition), but in most other countries indeed. There is no outrage whatsoever in the countries that already have an ID, and there are only a few countries thathave no ID AND a British-like tradition of liberalism.

Britain always stands against tyrants.

Domestic or otherwise.