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What kind of map do you want for the Final Round
This poll is closed.
Same settings as in the first round. 5 23.81%
A map that is balanced by the admins. 16 76.19%
Total: 21 voters 100%
  [Edit Poll (moderators only)]

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BigFree is offline BigFree

Emperor
Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 27-05-2005 23:03
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Map for the next game Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Do we want a modded map so that it is balanced by the admins or do we want to go with the settings that were used for the last round?

Kloreep is offline Kloreep

Emperor
of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 00:33
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On the one hand, we may gripe later about anything the admins do.

On the other hand, compare CDG's start with PAL's. Or ours with PAL's, for that matter.

Mod it, at least for starting locations.

BigFree is offline BigFree

Emperor
Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 01:47
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I agree that a modded and therefore a mostly balanced map would be best.

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
Duke of Civ3 Hall of Fame

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and the Apolyton University
Jun 2002
time: 21:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 02:59
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The map needs to be modded.

Hot_Enamel is offline Hot_Enamel
Emperor
Melbourne, Australia
Aug 2002
time: 14:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 06:20
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Ummm ...

Same settings, but with the map modded for a more balanced start.

Donovan Zoi is offline Donovan Zoi
Chieftain

Dec 2003
time: 23:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 07:30
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Put an end to popups!

Or get a load of the CFC game.

CFC/C3B's continent had 2 luxuries total, while the CDZ/CGN landmass had 7 luxes. This cannot happen in the finals!

Anyone up for a Pangaea game? It could raise the art of balancing diplomacy with military to a new level (think the Napoleonic scenario from C3C). Using a Pangaea would also weaken the picket fencing ploy.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 09:20
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Modding for balance could be very tricky. What is balanced?

One team gets a fp start with hills in reach. How do you balance against that? You can't.

I am in favour of the mods checking the starts and trying to balance things. However, I do not think that guarantees real balance. I urge that be kept in mind.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 09:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Donovan Zoi
Anyone up for a Pangaea game?


No.

Donovan Zoi is offline Donovan Zoi
Chieftain

Dec 2003
time: 23:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 10:27
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither


No.


Thanks for the expected response. But your answer is telling, given your apparent lack of emphasis placed on military during the first two games. But for those who really think that cash and diplomacy alone is going to win this one for you, keep this in mind.

PAL may play you this game just because they think you wouldn't expect it. Beware of their cunning.

CGN has two key members that have a good idea of how the Poly ISDG experience works. Don't think that they won't use that to their advantage against you with any civ they meet. Trip wants to trash your @$$ too.

If CDZ has caught wind of your style, you can plan to be rushed early.

That said, maybe the safety of continents is the way to go, as it will allow you to maintain the status quo with limited casualty. But get ready for another coastal standoff mid-game (boring!).


NOTE: With response like nye's (when I even get one), I feel it's best to refer to Poly team as "your" team for now. Because at this point I don't feel welcome enough to call it "our" team.

I joined your team for one reason: to help you guys avoid CFC's fate from last game. So I will plug for military strength in the finals for as long as I have access to this forum. Smoke and mirrors will not win this time out.

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
Duke of Civ3 Hall of Fame

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Jun 2002
time: 21:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 10:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Donovan Zoi


Thanks for the expected response. But your answer is telling, given your apparent lack of emphasis placed on military during the first two games. But for those who really think that cash and diplomacy alone is going to win this one for you, keep this in mind.

PAL may play you this game just because they think you wouldn't expect it. Beware of their cunning.


Oh, I believe we can handle PAL. We've had more experience with ISDGs than they have, and MasterZen is an excellent Foreign Affairs Minister, so I don't think we have reason to worry.

quote:


CGN has two key members that have a good idea of how the Poly ISDG experience works. Don't think that they won't use that to their advantage against you with any civ they meet. Trip wants to trash your @$$ too.


Two members? I can only think of Trip. And Trip only knows how the previous Apolyton ISDG works, not how we run it this time. If we hide any resemblance to the old team, we will catch Trip by surprise. [/quote]

quote:
If CDZ has caught wind of your style, you can plan to be rushed early.


How would they have caught our style of play, unless they have the best Minister of Information I have ever seen. [/quote]

quote:
That said, maybe the safety of continents is the way to go, as it will allow you to maintain the status quo with limited casualty. But get ready for another coastal standoff mid-game (boring!).


That invasion plan against GWT was far from boring. It was one of the most exciting, tense, and stressful times from the 'Poly point of view.


quote:
NOTE: With response like nye's (when I even get one), I feel it's best to refer to Poly team as "your" team for now. Because at this point I don't feel welcome enough to call it "our" team.

I joined your team for one reason: to help you guys avoid CFC's fate from last game. So I will plug for military strength in the finals for as long as I have access to this forum. Smoke and mirrors will not win this time out.


Look, don't take it personally. We are not being overly aggresive because you are new. We may treat you poorly, but if we do, we treat everyone poorly. But you do seem overly confident that foreign affairs and domestic affairs won't win us this game, and that we aren't going to win unless we focus on the military aspect of the game, and push out the other two parts.

planet is offline planet
Warlord

May 2005
time: 05:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 13:15 Visit planet's homepage!
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#11 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

Mod it.

Donegeal is offline Donegeal
King
Apolyton's Resident Law Enforcement Officer. Founder of the Glory of War, Champions of Apolyton!
Jul 2002
time: 05:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 18:06
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#12 Report this post to a moderator
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Just remember that in the ISDG1, it was "checked" for a fair start for everyone.

Jungle anyone?

Kloreep is offline Kloreep

Emperor
of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 19:27
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#13 Report this post to a moderator
Increase Your PM Length

quote:
Originally posted by Donegeal
Just remember that in the ISDG1, it was "checked" for a fair start for everyone.

Jungle anyone?


Only too well.

Perhaps we should have an education session for the admins first. "Jungle takes 24 turns for non-Ind civs to clear. To get an idea of how turn-intensive this is, spend 24 hours hacking the air with an imaginary machete."

BigFree is offline BigFree

Emperor
Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 20:20
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
Modding for balance could be very tricky. What is balanced?


We'll either have to collectively decide what is balanced and instruct the admins or leave it up to the admins completely. I'm in favor of the later.

quote:

One team gets a fp start with hills in reach. How do you balance against that? You can't.

Not looking for or expecting perfect balance. Some starts should be better than others, just not 100% better. Closer to a range of 20% would be fine by me. Yes, 20% is subjective to the person looking at a map, but we have to trust that the admins can do it as well as they can and we have to be happy with that.

quote:

I am in favour of the mods checking the starts and trying to balance things. However, I do not think that guarantees real balance. I urge that be kept in mind.


I agree and I think most everyone here realizes that. I think most people just want the admins to do what is reasonable. I don't think a checkerboard like map is reasonable, and I don't expect that anyone else does either.

BigFree is offline BigFree

Emperor
Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 20:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Donegeal
Just remember that in the ISDG1, it was "checked" for a fair start for everyone.

Jungle anyone?


I think mongoose was the one who checked for "balance". I don't think he had a lot of Civ experience up to that point IMHO. I have greater faith in MRex and Elucidus.

I mean look at the frogs start! That was very very bad! I actually think it was worse than ours with the jungle.

Donovan Zoi is offline Donovan Zoi
Chieftain

Dec 2003
time: 23:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 20:27
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Nuclear

Look, don't take it personally. We are not being overly aggresive because you are new. We may treat you poorly, but if we do, we treat everyone poorly. But you do seem overly confident that foreign affairs and domestic affairs won't win us this game, and that we aren't going to win unless we focus on the military aspect of the game, and push out the other two parts.


I never said anything about pushing out the other two. But we cannot forget about the military aspect of the game. I realize that the alliance with PAL afforded you a bit of safety last game, but having less military units than cities is unconscienable.

We will not be able to go that route this game. We need the 3-legged table of military, diplomacy and commercial to even consider a victory. Because no matter how good we think we are, we will be attacked this game.

Someone earlier said that we were the ones to beat, but in reality, we are the ones everyone will be gunning for. There's a difference.

In reality, no one wants one of the "big sites" to win. This was probably a factor in CFC's demise last game. PAL and CDZ play nothing but PBEMs 24/7, and almost always achieve victory through military prowess. We need to be able to offset that, and we can start by not acting so comfy.

This is starting to turn into somewhat of a threadjack, so I'll close by stating I'd still like a modded Pangaea since it emphasizes all the important factors mentioned here.

BigFree is offline BigFree

Emperor
Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 20:32
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Originally posted by Donovan Zoi


NOTE: With response like nye's (when I even get one), I feel it's best to refer to Poly team as "your" team for now. Because at this point I don't feel welcome enough to call it "our" team.

I joined your team for one reason: to help you guys avoid CFC's fate from last game. So I will plug for military strength in the finals for as long as I have access to this forum. Smoke and mirrors will not win this time out.


Please don't take his one word response so personally. It's just a simple answer he gave to a single question. He did not give it looking down his nose at you.

I also agree that a Pangea map is not in our best interest. I know it would shorten the game quite a bit and change certain stratedgies.

If we end up on a Continent where, through diplomatic reponses and/or intelligence tells us that a military build up is needed, then we will do that. We will not simply go "builder" foresaking all else for it. We make educated guesses as to what the best plan ATM is. If an Archer rush makes sense, then we will do so. Nothing is ever written in stone, we can be very maleable when it comes to our plans to win the game.

Master Zen is offline Master Zen
Deity
of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 20:45 Visit Master Zen's homepage!
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#18 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by Donovan Zoi
I never said anything about pushing out the other two. But we cannot forget about the military aspect of the game. I realize that the alliance with PAL afforded you a bit of safety last game, but having less military units than cities is unconscienable.


I don't think we've ever forgotten about the military aspect of this game. Just remember who trounced GCA in the PTW ISDG. If anything our success has been blending good foreign folicy, careful economic planning, and wielding the sword whenever we've had to. I expect no difference in this last game.

BigFree is offline BigFree

Emperor
Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 20:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Master Zen


I don't think we've ever forgotten about the military aspect of this game. Just remember who trounced GCA in the PTW ISDG. If anything our success has been blending good foreign folicy, careful economic planning, and wielding the sword whenever we've had to. I expect no difference in this last game.


Yeah, what he said!

SirOsis is offline SirOsis
King
Oregon
Nov 2001
time: 21:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 21:21
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#20 Report this post to a moderator
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It's certainly naive to think that Apolyton is going to rely on its diplomatic skills only. When the smack down needs to come we'll be there with plenty of forces.

Donovan Zoi is offline Donovan Zoi
Chieftain

Dec 2003
time: 23:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 23:02
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Well, now that I've made a bunch of new friends.....

I am in the process of reading the archives right now, to get a better feel for your team. My posting style is meant to spark discussion and debate as sometimes it gets pretty dead around here. Believe it or not, I feel much better after reading your responses.

And now that everyone knows I'm here, I'll tone it down a bit until the real debates start. Just remember, I am interested in winning just as much as you guys are.

FYI - did you guys know that you voted for Pangaea last time out?

ormuzd is offline ormuzd
Moderator

Jan 2003
time: 07:23
  Old Post 28-05-2005 23:31 Visit ormuzd's homepage!
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#22 Report this post to a moderator
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Donovan, I must tell you I was even less active than you when I joined this game. I wanted just see how the legendary players are doing aginst the others.

At the end I was a part of the team, even more than I could imagine. And all this just because I had a little bit more free time and read the forums I was drunk after a great night with friends.

Anyway, back to the point - you should not feel uncomfortable to say "our team", "us", "you lurker bastards", etc.

Paddy the Scot is offline Paddy the Scot

Prince
Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:23
  Old Post 29-05-2005 01:45 Visit Paddy the Scot<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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#23 Report this post to a moderator
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lots of good stuff here mod away

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
Duke of Civ3 Hall of Fame

Donate to the Red Cross
and the Apolyton University
Jun 2002
time: 21:23
  Old Post 29-05-2005 02:39
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#24 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by Donovan Zoi
Well, now that I've made a bunch of new friends.....

I am in the process of reading the archives right now, to get a better feel for your team. My posting style is meant to spark discussion and debate as sometimes it gets pretty dead around here. Believe it or not, I feel much better after reading your responses.

And now that everyone knows I'm here, I'll tone it down a bit until the real debates start. Just remember, I am interested in winning just as much as you guys are.

FYI - did you guys know that you voted for Pangaea last time out?


That's probably because it was an elimination round.

Hot_Enamel is offline Hot_Enamel
Emperor
Melbourne, Australia
Aug 2002
time: 14:23
  Old Post 29-05-2005 04:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Nuclear


That's probably because it was an elimination round.


exactly

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:23
  Old Post 29-05-2005 04:50
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#26 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

As I am just catching up on the prep for the next game, I will (I rarely do this) continue the threadjack for just a wee bit: DZ, I like your style, and welcome to the 'poly community!!

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:23
  Old Post 29-05-2005 04:53
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#27 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

BTW, I voted balanced. From what I've seen/read in various Team and SP DG's at 'poly, MZO, and the Ladder, balance just has too big an impact to ignore.

On a (muuuuch) smaller scale, there is a reason that the track lanes are groomed in the Olympics.

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