28-05-2005 22:12									#31
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Oregon, $7.25 per hour. We seem to have survived.

	28-05-2005 22:32									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus In Kansas it's $2,65/hour,... omg. I hope life is a bit cheap there.

Which means its $5.15 per hour. When state is lower than federal, federal is the law. When state is higher than federal, state is the law.

	28-05-2005 22:35									#33
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Oregon also has one of the highest unemployment rates among states -- 6.5% versus the national average of 5.2%.

I don't know what the employment rate is (what we should be looking at), but I bet that paints Oregon in an even worse light.

Last edited by DanS on 28-05-2005 at 22:41

	28-05-2005 23:31									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Adam Smith If increasing wages increases productivity and hence profits, then wouldn't these greedy, profit grubbing firms do it on their own?

They do, but unfortunatley only for executives.

In that case neither profit nor productivity is increased.

	28-05-2005 23:32									#35
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DanS, that's because logging went belly up.

	28-05-2005 23:33									#36
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I need more explanation of this 3% thing.

(According to the study,) how long does it take to recover the 3%? Because, if it was cumulative, that would be a 3% loss every time the wage is increased, and then we'd be looking at like 9% unemployment across the board.

	28-05-2005 23:35									#37
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When logging went so did the mills...

I got a casino job with no problem, and had another place I applied to call me two days after I got hired at the casino.

	28-05-2005 23:36									#38
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I thought the Mills were still in the Phillipines.

	28-05-2005 23:40									#41
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quote: Because, if it was cumulative, that would be a 3% loss every time the wage is increased, and then we'd be looking at like 9% unemployment across the board.

Well, it's 9% less employment, not 9% more unemployment. There's a big difference between the two. The study would be looking at the employment rate, where a 9% decrease is more imaginable.

Edit: Consider, for instance, the employment to working age population ratio of the US in 2003 was 71.2%, while in Italy it was only 56.2%. However, the difference in the unemployment rate was very much smaller, 6.1% for the US versus 8.6% for Italy.

The unemployment rate isn't irrelevant, but the employment rate is a lot more important.

	29-05-2005 00:54									#42
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When you put more money in the hands of the lowest paid, they spend it. It raises demand, which means more hires.

	29-05-2005 00:56									#43
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I have an idea - every company should pay it's workers $10 million dollars a year. The employees would be able to buy so much stuff that employment would go THROUGH THE ROOF!

	29-05-2005 01:39									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker I have an idea - every company should pay it's workers $10 million dollars a year. The employees would be able to buy so much stuff that employment would go THROUGH THE ROOF!

See? Inflation!

	29-05-2005 02:42									#45
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Yeah, high minimum wages are really a killer for both companies and society. Luckily we don't have a minimum wage here, so we don't have your problems. Typical low skilled work are only rewarded with $17 pr hour, but we pay the dire consequences with an unemployment rate at a staggering 6 %. The same goes for the inflation wich is as high as 1 maybe 2 percent. Society are also crumbling since we have forced almost all women to join the labor force, so no mommies cuddling their children.

Fortunately we tax them hard (30-40%), but of course it's a drawback that we offer them free education, free medical treatment and social security.

Dear US polytubbies, fight hard to keep your minimum wages as low as you can so you don't end up in same horrible situation as we are in.

	29-05-2005 02:55									#46
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The Danes are on the Euro, right? $17/hour and 6% unemployment sounds pretty damn good over here!

	29-05-2005 03:06									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Theben The Danes are on the Euro, right? $17/hour and 6% unemployment sounds pretty damn good over here!

Nope, we are not a member of the euro, we still run the hard currency called danish crowns.

	29-05-2005 03:32									#48
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What the exchange rate vs. U.S. $$?

	29-05-2005 03:56									#49
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Don't hang me if i'm not that accurate, but if my memory isn't wrong, then it was 1:7.5 some twenty years ago and now it's 1:5.25.

Edit : that's $ : DKK

	29-05-2005 07:09									#50
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Putting a few more bucks into the hands of the working poor means they'll spend it on stuff, sales go up, eveyone wins.

	29-05-2005 07:21									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Putting a few more bucks into the hands of the working poor means they'll spend it on stuff, sales go up, eveyone wins.

Nah, that is just leftist propaganda, that only works if you are a bit to the left of attila the hun .

	29-05-2005 07:41									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Putting a few more bucks into the hands of the working poor means they'll spend it on stuff, sales go up, eveyone wins.

See my post. It results mostly in inflation.

	29-05-2005 07:43									#53
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Did he say "hi", or some other variation of the same, the man that approached you?

I presume he did of course, I mean its rude not too. Especially if you're wanting somebody to sign something for you, but you never do know.

	29-05-2005 07:51									#54
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Just to be painfully clear, that's a 3% decrease in overall employment, not just a 3% decrease in employment of those at the low end of the scale?

I think it is 3% decline in employment on the low end. I will have to check. My previous post was unclear.

quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Putting a few more bucks into the hands of the working poor means they'll spend it on stuff, sales go up, eveyone wins.

But the $ have to come from somewhere ... other consumers ... so that's a wash. The harm is to people who would like to work but get pushed out of the market.

	29-05-2005 07:58									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Adam Smith But the $ have to come from somewhere ... other consumers ... so that's a wash.

Wrong. The working poor spend their money quicker, so the positive effects of the spending are accelerated.

Hoarded money doesn't help the economy; spent money does.

	29-05-2005 08:47									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Wrong. The working poor spend their money quicker, so the positive effects of the spending are accelerated.

A dollar is a dollar, no matter who spends it.

quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Hoarded money doesn't help the economy; spent money does.

"Hoarded money" is known as savings, which becomes investment. Thinking that only spent money helps the economy is one reason why we don't save enough to replace our existing capital stock.

	29-05-2005 08:53									#57
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I really think a far better method of raising wages would be a negative income tax. Put the burden of the additional wage beyond producitivity on society, and not just the employer. That would get rid of the employment effect of the minimum wage.

	29-05-2005 10:53									#58
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quote: Hoarded money doesn't help the economy; spent money does

This is the same BS that Kidicious says . Adam Smith is right (as he usually is about things economics), savings is very important to an economy. The US has VERY low savings, which has been boosted by foriegn investment, which we have no idea how long it'll last. China has already made noises of buying up Euros instead of dollars.

	29-05-2005 10:54									#59
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Imran is right.

	29-05-2005 10:54									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Wrong. The working poor spend their money quicker, so the positive effects of the spending are accelerated. Hoarded money doesn't help the economy; spent money does.

Money doens't do anything. It's just a piece of paper. Even if it's true that the rich don't spend their money, then what you're suggesting is equivalent to simply introducing more money into the system - which means that while the working man may have more pieces of paper, they aren't worth as much.