01-06-2005 08:49									#31
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Something I'm not getting here.

Deep Throat provided Woodward and Bernstein with valuable information about how the White House staff and Committee to Reelect the President (CREEP - Best. Acronym. Ever.) worked. Woodward and Bernstein sold the story to Post editor Ben Bradlee on the basis of this very well placed, but still anonymous source. But how is the number 2 guy at the FBI (who probably wanted the #1 job, and therefore may have had mixed motives) supposed to be an authority on how the White House and CREEP worked? I would have expected the source to be somebody inside the White House or CREEP. Makes me wonder if the initial investigative work was much more playing a hunch than anybody let on at the time.

	01-06-2005 08:55									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon The Neds of this world are already calling him a traitor. I bet that our own Ned will soon join the denunciation of this evil man.

I bet that this guy was conflicted about doing it. In our system, the FBI is supposed to be apolitical and a big danger from the FBI's perspective is that the political leadership would view the FBI as a potentially hostile political institution. The FBI shouldn't be in the business of trying to bring presidents down and we now find out that an FBI officer was one prime mover in the first ever resignation of a US president. It is a troubling precedent. On the other hand, it was Nixon himself who put the investigation on the path to create this bad precedent.

The same thing goes for the CIA and the military, for instance. They are not to work against the president.

	01-06-2005 09:05									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Adam Smith Something I'm not getting here. Deep Throat provided Woodward and Bernstein with valuable information about how the White House staff and Committee to Reelect the President (CREEP - Best. Acronym. Ever.) worked. Woodward and Bernstein sold the story to Post editor Ben Bradlee on the basis of this very well placed, but still anonymous source. But how is the number 2 guy at the FBI (who probably wanted the #1 job, and therefore may have had mixed motives) supposed to be an authority on how the White House and CREEP worked? I would have expected the source to be somebody inside the White House or CREEP. Makes me wonder if the initial investigative work was much more playing a hunch than anybody let on at the time.

From what I've heard, he was involved with investigating the break in. That might have given him some clues about how the rest of it fit together, even if what he suspected/knew could not result in criminal charges.

	01-06-2005 09:06									#34
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quote: But how is the number 2 guy at the FBI (who probably wanted the #1 job, and therefore may have had mixed motives) supposed to be an authority on how the White House and CREEP worked?

I think it started with a break-in at the Democrat Hqts so the FBI was involved, and he was in the chain of info as the FBI investigated. Somebody in the WH may have known at the time or shortly after the break-in, a bigshot at the FBI would have to figure out what was going on.

	01-06-2005 09:09									#36
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I bet that this guy was conflicted about doing it. In our system, the FBI is supposed to be apolitical and a big danger from the FBI's perspective is that the political leadership would view the FBI as a potentially hostile political institution. The FBI shouldn't be in the business of trying to bring presidents down and we now find out that an FBI officer was one prime mover in the first ever resignation of a US president. It is a troubling precedent. On the other hand, it was Nixon himself who put the investigation on the path to create this bad precedent.

Only if you value loyalty over your Constitution.

	01-06-2005 09:14									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker

Indeed.

	01-06-2005 09:15									#38
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The constitution only mentions high crimes and misdemeanors and he is not the judge of that.

I'm not saying I disagree with his action, just that it would be a much tougher decision than might be expected otherwise. Once the FBI starts sliming the president, there's a huge problem. We've not had angels as presidents in the past, but it hasn't brought about constitutional crises.

Last edited by DanS on 01-06-2005 at 09:20

	01-06-2005 09:24									#39
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I'm puzzled, Dan, did Nixon not break the law?

	01-06-2005 09:35									#40
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He did. Like a lot of presidents before him.

	01-06-2005 09:36									#41
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Did many presidents before him break the law in attempts to influence, or cover up attempts to influence, domestic political campaigns for the presidency?

	01-06-2005 09:38									#42
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quote: Originally posted by DanS He did. Like a lot of presidents before him.

And thank god finally someone talked. Now only if more people talked.

Lets not thought assume this guy was "clean". He did go to jail for being involved in spying on the antiwar movement.

	01-06-2005 09:42									#43
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quote: Did many presidents before him break the law in attempts to influence, or cover up attempts to influence, domestic political campaigns for the presidency?

I don't know. We've had a lot of presidents. It doesn't strike me as plausible that he was the worst in that regard. Maybe I'm being overly cynical.

	01-06-2005 09:43									#44
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If a president did that (broke the law to influence an election) wouldn't you want someone who had a clue what was going on to speak up?

	01-06-2005 09:47									#45
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On balance, probably yes. But depending on the circumstances and the nature of the crime, I would be conflicted about it.

	01-06-2005 09:56									#46
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I'm not. I've had my fill of politicians doing whatever it takes to stay in power, including blatant violations of the laws of the land.

Don't even begin to excuse it. We have. We face the very real prospect that a party that has stolen hundreds of millions, some millions of which have ended up back in the party's war chest, will again win an election.

Not only that, but now they are caught red-handed on tape subverting Parliament, but the likelihood of them retaining power goes up.

You could not find a more corrupt bunch outside of a banana republic, but too many Canadians have been too forgiving for too long. So, we shall soon get what we deserve.

	01-06-2005 10:03									#47
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So Deep Throat turns out to be just a disgruntled bureaucrat getting revenge on the man who passed him over for a promotion? How dissappointing. Then again, I didn't really care much about Deep Throat to begin with...

	01-06-2005 10:11									#48
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I'm not. I've had my fill of politicians doing whatever it takes to stay in power, including blatant violations of the laws of the land. Don't even begin to excuse it. We have. We face the very real prospect that a party that has stolen hundreds of millions, some millions of which have ended up back in the party's war chest, will again win an election. Not only that, but now they are caught red-handed on tape subverting Parliament, but the likelihood of them retaining power goes up. You could not find a more corrupt bunch outside of a banana republic, but too many Canadians have been too forgiving for too long. So, we shall soon get what we deserve.

Don't get me started. We couldn't even kick out a president for a bald-faced lie in a court of law. Thank god for term limits.

	01-06-2005 10:28									#49
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Liberal media wags are saying the same thing up here.

It's happened before. Par for the course. Now let's get on with letting the Liberals run the country.

	01-06-2005 10:44									#50
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Wonder what it would take to bring down the liberals in Canada, if those crimes don't.

	01-06-2005 10:52									#51
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A wooden stake in the heart.

	01-06-2005 11:44									#52
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quote: Don't get me started. We couldn't even kick out a president for a bald-faced lie in a court of law. Thank god for term limits.

you republicans are so repressed.

	01-06-2005 20:06									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Petek Here's a link to the Vanity Fair article: http://www.vanityfair.com/pdf/pressroom/advance1.pdf

Thanks for the link, Petek. It's an interesting read.

	01-06-2005 20:37									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia you republicans are so repressed.

Hey, I wasn't even that much for the impeachment, knowing that for a president, a minor felony here and there is acceptable to the public when compared to constitutional issues.

	01-06-2005 20:53									#55
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1. the name deep throat - he gave info only on deep background - he told W&B that he would NOT give them ANY new info - he would only confirm or deny what they had from other sources.
2. His loyalty - see 1. He clearly limited what he told them BECAUSE he felt so conflicted. It must have been a difficult situation to be in.

	01-06-2005 20:59									#56
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Perhaps Watergate reminiscing will compel another deep throat to give up Bush. I'd love to see him impeached - he's sure done more than enough to deserve it.

	01-06-2005 21:05									#57
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark 1. the name deep throat - he gave info only on deep background - he told W&B that he would NOT give them ANY new info - he would only confirm or deny what they had from other sources. 2. His loyalty - see 1. He clearly limited what he told them BECAUSE he felt so conflicted. It must have been a difficult situation to be in.

Good points.

	01-06-2005 21:39									#58
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Here's an excellent article about how Felt was conflicted in many different ways on this issue...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...5053101411.html

All of these guys sure played hardball and skirted the law or broke the law to get what they wanted.

	02-06-2005 02:25									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Perhaps Watergate reminiscing will compel another deep throat to give up Bush. I'd love to see him impeached - he's sure done more than enough to deserve it.

unfortunately standards of ministerial accountability have dropped a lot since the 70's right across the west, so like Bill Clinton Bush would probably just tough out any scandal

	02-06-2005 04:09									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten So Deep Throat turns out to be just a disgruntled bureaucrat getting revenge on the man who passed him over for a promotion? How dissappointing. Then again, I didn't really care much about Deep Throat to begin with...

Deputy directors of large agencies are a bit past bureaucrat status.

And Nixon forgot one of the prime rules, which is if you have so many skeletons in so many closets you need to buy a vacation home to stuff 'em in, you can't afford to be ****ing over people close enough to see the dirt on you.