01-06-2005 06:10									#1
	Report 1675bc - Proposal 1650bc Full PM-box? Change here!

Actions taken in 1675 BC

- worker Rhoth: finishes irrigating plains with Platy
- worker McM: continues mining grassland
- worker Platy: moves 4 and irrigates fur
- New worker Wittlich: moves 774

- swordsman Mark Knopfler 4/4 moves 66 from U2 to Nirvana and fortifies
- swordsman Alan Clark 4/4 moves 226 from AbbA toward Nirvana

- horseman Beyoncé Knowles 4/4 moves 33

- spearman Brian Wilson 4/4 moves 66 from U2 to Nirvana and fortifies
- spearman Michael Rutherford 4/4 moves 996 from Metallica into U2.
- spearman Phill Bailey 4/4 moves 6 from BC-52's toward AbbA

- AbbA: swordsman in 5. WF to 6,7,12,20 to give the cattle to BC-52's
- U2: swordsman in 4. WF to 1,8,16,20 to pick up a commerce point
- Nirvana: settler in 3.
- Metallica: spearman in 7.
- BC-52's: swordsman in 1. WF to 2,3,12
- Beach Boys: catapult in 3.


Construction in 10 turns @ 70% science
10% luxuries
+2 gpt with 7 gold in treasure @ 20% taxes

Diplomacy:
-

Remarks
- Total War Balance: lost 4 archers, 1 spearman & 1 warrior vs eliminated 3 horsemen and 1 warrior = 110 shields lost vs 100 shields.
- We are still STRONG towards DR and AVERAGE to BOH!
- DR has founded a city (Sidon) close to our border


Proposal for actions in 1650 BC


Diplomacy

Attachment: 1675bc.jpg
This has been downloaded 21 time(s).

	01-06-2005 07:27									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Sidon is a problem. If they road 8 from Sidon, they can attack with a horsemen at Nirvana without being counterattacked.

I think it's pretty clear that they're trying to either a) get a coup and attack us easily, or b) trying to provoke us into attacking sidon and taking heavy defensive losses ... just which one ...

	01-06-2005 07:56									#3
	Tired of ads?

Okay, my proposed solution after a few minutes' thought ...

Station a horseman in Nirvana. Each turn, go down the horse road to check on the squares between it and sidon, and then go back into nirvana (4/3 mp). Also keep at least 3 swordsmen and 2 spearmen (maybe more spears, and maybe catapults for defensive fire) at all times in Nirvana.

Once they put a worker out there, if it's only a single worker, capture that single worker with the horseman (or stack of workers w/o any fighters) and retreat, should be able to get onto the horse square again, and thus able to be covered by the spearmen - hanging whatever horsemen come to play out to dry, even if they win (probably letting us do some cleanup the next turn) and allowing them to perhaps survive.

If they put a covered worker (with a spearman), then you probably have a choice - attack it with a swordsman, but leave him hung out to dry; attack it with horseman, hoping to win the roughly 50/50 battle, but risking an endangered resource; or attack it with the swordsman, and then cover the swordsman with spears, swords, and possibly archers, catapults, etc...

I vote for choice (c) - cover the swordsman with spears and a motley invasion force. It's overall more risky - you could lose a bunch of swords to city-protected horsemen - but it's more likely to pay off in the end also, taking the city and preventing this exchange from occurring again ...

Paddy will need to be notified of this slight change in plans as well ...

	01-06-2005 09:56									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The easiest solution to avoid letting their horsemen attack Nirvana is to cut the horse road. Even if they build a road in their own territory, they still can't strike at Nirvana with horsemen without leaving them open to attack (even in the forest). If they reestablish the horse road then we'll deal with that as snoop says above.

As to choice C, that is an entirely valid option, just remember that they will have immortals by now so we will suffer potentially more losses than we otherwise would by leaving our units out there. But on the plus side, Sidon is only a town so it has no defensive bonuses unless they get a wall up there quickly (unlikely since that's likely a one-shield town right now.

We'll need to discuss this in more detail as to how we want to proceed, whether sticking with the original plan or taking the possible bait and eliminating Sidon.

	01-06-2005 12:34									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

My first thoughts were later expressed by Rhot, cut off our own horse resource.
I want to proceed with moving our main force through the mountains. Through the mountains we are protected against approaching immortals. I refuse to play their game. Within the next ~8 turns the horde will arrive in our lands. Off course we should take care we're not too vulnerable while we move out and BOH moves and adjust our numbers (probably in 2 waves). Furthermore the horde is very eager to take care of Aqua (and thus Sidon). In a way it's reassuring to know DR is stacking troops there. That means less troops at home.

Their idea seems to be one of slow approach. The advantage for them using a town is that we're unable to identify the size of their army. I wouldn't be suprised if their next move is to build a city even closer to us. They want to get their immortals close to us, without having them attacked as that is the weakness of the immortal.

	01-06-2005 16:17									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Although BOH is roading towards us, it seems that they're intending to road untill our territory border. For that reason I think it is helpfull if we road the tile 4 from Metallica ourselves to hurry the road. It is important to have them move units into our territory fast (RoP needs to be arranged in due time as well). Furthermore we'll need to get the furs in the east connected to trade for lux with BOH.

	01-06-2005 23:56									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think I missed some FA info somewhere. I didn't realize we were giving them a ROP, etc. Will that happen on turn 56 as well, or sooner? I can send worker Rhoth to road tile 4 from Metallica next turn.

As to sending our forces in two waves, I agree. I definitely don't want to leave us open to attack until BOH can adequately defend us/remove Sidon. I don't necessarily like splitting up a slow mover force, but it's unfortunately necessary now.

As to the furs in the east, worker McM is mining close to the furs right now, but he can work on the road when he is done the mine.

	02-06-2005 08:55									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Probably my fault to have forgotten to mention a RoP. I speak quite often with Paddy and not only about EoD. Usually forget to save a copy of (part of) the conversation. When They get a RoP, they'll be able to adequately defend our lands.
The idea is to put as much pressure on the DR homelands as possible and hopefully have them swiftly counterattack in an attempt to sue for peace. Then the horde will grin them in the face instead of empty lands. Therefore we should move as many units as possible. It works 2 ways. If DR doesn't take the bait they have to face a huge stack of ours. Could you make a proposal on which units to move out and which not?

I noticed worker McM allready going into the right direction.

By the way, I didn't need a break, in fact I like playing the game, just wanted to share the involvement. I had been on the switchboard for 50 turns. I thought it was fair to step aside. Nonetheless, it's ok to have DR think I had to step back.

	02-06-2005 09:53									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by McMeadows Probably my fault to have forgotten to mention a RoP. I speak quite often with Paddy and not only about EoD. Usually forget to save a copy of (part of) the conversation. When They get a RoP, they'll be able to adequately defend our lands. The idea is to put as much pressure on the DR homelands as possible and hopefully have them swiftly counterattack in an attempt to sue for peace. Then the horde will grin them in the face instead of empty lands. Therefore we should move as many units as possible. It works 2 ways. If DR doesn't take the bait they have to face a huge stack of ours. Could you make a proposal on which units to move out and which not?

Okay. I understand the reasoning of the ROP I just didn't know we were going with one until now.

I'll think about which units I'd like to move out

quote: I noticed worker McM allready going into the right direction.

It will take a few turns to get there because he is mining, but it shouldn't take any more time than it would for BOH to road toward us.

quote: By the way, I didn't need a break, in fact I like playing the game, just wanted to share the involvement. I had been on the switchboard for 50 turns. I thought it was fair to step aside. Nonetheless, it's ok to have DR think I had to step back.

Ahh, I was assuming. Having played the PTWDG save for nearly two years now and wanting a break and then having to take it back three turns later was what I was basing my assumption on. I had also opted out of being the turnplayer, etc. for another demo game a while back (over at MZO) for much the same reason as wanting to not be the turnplayer for Vox for a while. Sometimes you just need a break, or at least I did at the time.

	02-06-2005 22:54									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I felt that I was more and more becoming a dictator. Now with you as a turnplayer the discussions get better again.

	02-06-2005 23:04									#11
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Heh, I wasn't seeing you as a dictator so much as seeing the inevitable truth of democracy games. After a while interest wanes and then one person ends up doing the majority of the work. That was why when I joined I had stated that I didn't want to be involved with the turnplay, etc. because I didn't want to get stuck again. Of course I've obviously made that point moot by becoming the turnplayer for a few weeks, but I mainly accepted to give you a break so you didn't get burned out like what had happened to me.

	02-06-2005 23:51									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

you are both great dictators

with great knowledge of the game, let alone figuring out what others will do.

My lack of experience has me saying little

	03-06-2005 04:03									#13
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

maybe switching turnplay more often allows for more involvement foir everyone and makes the job more interesting for some...

Had a look at the inbound save. It seems that BOH delivered. They are building the road, just a little higher than expected. No need for us to aid them. They're going to be perfectly on time. 2 more turns before we move out (turn 54 now)

	03-06-2005 04:15									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Perhaps start a rotation that would have each turnplayer play 10-15 saves (a month or so) to keep things fresh. Though obviously it would be nice to have more than 2 turnplayers in the rotation. It would at least help avoid burnout, as well as possibly letting others have more of a hand in the game if they want.

I haven't looked at the save yet (will play in 2 hours or so), but that's nice to know about BOH.