01-06-2005 09:02									#1
	FBI Memo Confirms Abuse at Guantanamo Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: One of those inquiries, the findings of which are expected to be issued soon by Air Force Lieut. General Randall Schmidt, was spurred by eyewitness accounts from FBI agents at Gitmo from mid-2002 to mid-2004. According to just-released memos, agents reported seeing captives shackled in a fetal position for 24 hours without food or water and left in their own excrement, another gagged with duct tape that covered much of his head and another who had torn out his hair after being chained all night in a hot room. Former Army Sergeant Erik Saar, who served at Gitmo and wrote Inside the Wire with TIME correspondent Viveca Novak, has described an instance in which a female interrogator smeared fake menstrual blood on a captive's face. It may have been a measure of how detainees are treated that when Army Specialist Sean Baker played the role of an inmate in a 2003 training exercise, he says he was beaten so badly by MPs, who did not know he was one of them, he now has seizures. The Army is investigating the incident, and Baker has filed suit against the government, seeking damages for his injuries.

The value of holding the detainees for information:

quote: Still, earlier this year the civilian head of intelligence at Guantanamo admitted in newspaper interviews that the majority of detainees were no longer of much intelligence value and were not even being regularly interrogated.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/a...66878-1,00.html

	01-06-2005 09:26									#2
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damn . . . . .

	01-06-2005 09:58									#3
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A more detailed account of Baker's beating can be found here: http://www.wlextv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1891343

	01-06-2005 11:26									#4
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*Whistles*

	01-06-2005 15:05									#5
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Can we simply get rid of that Gitmo thing?

	01-06-2005 15:23									#6
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The troubling aspect of this is that there should be quite a lot of innocent people. Sure there must be terrorists too, but like they say that many have been sold there by locals in Afghanistan and where ever, because they got paid if they delivered them a terrorist. Well, some people just got snatched and delivered.

	01-06-2005 16:04									#7
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If they aren't being regularly interrogated, wouldn't they not be regularly abused either?

	01-06-2005 16:38									#8
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Indefinite detention without due process is abuse.

And why does abuse of a particular detainee have to frequent, to be objectionable?

	01-06-2005 16:57									#9
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In other Gitmo news:

quote: They fed them well. The Pakistani tribesmen slaughtered a sheep in honor of their guests, Arabs and Chinese Muslims famished from fleeing U.S. bombing in the Afghan mountains. But their hosts had ulterior motives: to sell them to the Americans, said the men who are now prisoners at Guantanamo Bay. Bounties ranged from $3,000 to $25,000, the detainees testified during military tribunals, according to transcripts the U.S. government gave The Associated Press to comply with a Freedom of Information lawsuit. A former CIA intelligence officer who helped lead the search for Osama bin Laden told AP the accounts sounded legitimate because U.S. allies regularly got money to help catch Taliban and al-Qaida fighters. Gary Schroen said he took a suitcase of $3 million in cash into Afghanistan himself to help supply and win over warlords to fight for U.S. Special Forces. "It wouldn't surprise me if we paid rewards," said Schroen, who retired after 32 years in the CIA soon after the fall of Kabul in late 2001. He recently published the book "First In: An Insider's Account of How the CIA Spearheaded the War on Terror in Afghanistan." Schroen said Afghan warlords like Gen. Rashid Dostum were among those who received bundles of notes. "It may be that we were giving rewards to people like Dostum because his guys were capturing a lot of Taliban and al-Qaida," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050531...ners_for_sale_1

	01-06-2005 17:11									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Indefinite detention without due process is abuse. And why does abuse of a particular detainee have to frequent, to be objectionable?

quote:

	01-06-2005 17:29									#11
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The smiley doesn't do justice to the real thing.

	01-06-2005 18:23									#12
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I dont like to think about it often, but we have our version of Guantanamo here in the uk too

I think politicians realise that while we remain apathetic to the world around us, they can try to get away with all the Orwelian hard-ons they've ever had

It doesn't fill one with positive nobel thoughts on humankind.

	01-06-2005 20:06									#13
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It's business as usual . . . . . .





unfortunately.

	02-06-2005 09:13									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka The troubling aspect of this is that there should be quite a lot of innocent people. Sure there must be terrorists too, but like they say that many have been sold there by locals in Afghanistan and where ever, because they got paid if they delivered them a terrorist. Well, some people just got snatched and delivered.

Pekka,

That article goes on to say that since hearings started (not court hearings, but military tribunals), that over 40 people who were deemed innocent were released.

Keep in mind that during these tribunal proceedings, none of the inmates had access to a lawyer. It's only recently that they have gotten this access.

I expect to see many more releases.

On top of all this, the indefinite imprisonment without being charged issue that Ramo pointed out is one of the most cruel aspects of this whole stupid scheme.

	02-06-2005 09:19									#15
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor I dont like to think about it often, but we have our version of Guantanamo here in the uk too I think politicians realise that while we remain apathetic to the world around us, they can try to get away with all the Orwelian hard-ons they've ever had It doesn't fill one with positive nobel thoughts on humankind.

What is the UK version of all of this?

	06-06-2005 12:38									#16
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65% of all respondants, "Hate America."

own3d

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This has been downloaded 23 time(s).

	06-06-2005 12:42									#17
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro Can we simply get rid of that Gitmo thing?

quote: Sen. Joseph Biden of Delaware, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said he thinks the Guantanamo Bay prison imperils the nation and should cease operating. "This has become the greatest propaganda tool that exists for recruiting of terrorists around the world, and it is unnecessary to be in that position," Biden said on ABC's "This Week." He called for an independent commission to review operations at Guantanamo and other U.S. military-run prisons and make recommendations to Congress. "But the end result is, I think we should end up shutting it down," Biden said.

Definitley time to pull the plug.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/05/am...inee/index.html

	06-06-2005 15:01									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker What is the UK version of all of this?

BellMarsh prison(i think its that one?) - we have about a dozen people inturned there with out trail or legal convictions against them.
I saw a snippet on the news where one of the Jugdes looking over them(apointed by the home office) basicaly quit - he said he felt it was unjust!