01-06-2005 22:44									#1
	Your success in completing a PBEM? Full PM-box? Change here!

It seems to successfully complete a PBEM game requires an act of God -- or at least Diety

It's really tough to keep a game moving. Players drop out -- often without notice. It can be difficult to find a replacement player -- especially if the position is a less than optimal offering. Also, players sometimes find themselves in disagreements of varying seriousness due to the rules, exploits, suspicion of cheating, etc. Let's not forget real life which can reset one's priorities.

Another difficulty is the time required. The time committment, although relatively small in terms of the time needed to play one turn, is omni-present and can last for many, many months. I'm a few PBEMs that have been ongong for over one year and we just recently crossed into AD.

So, I ask you, the PBEM community, what is your success rate for completion of a game? I will define completion as a winner per the victory conditions of the game, or a consensus agreement among the players that there is a winner therefore no need to play on.

I will report to you that I have a 0% completion rate (0/~15) although there are several long running PBEMs that are still going. For the purposes of the poll, include PTW with the C3C PBEMS.

	01-06-2005 22:57									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I've had 3 PBEMs finish to completion (all three were won by me with Beta in second place, hence my trash talk in the other thread ), but I've had probably around 20-30 that have died on me. I currently have only 9 PBEMs on my plate, but many of them have the possibility of finishing to completion (at least one won't be a win for me though )

	02-06-2005 00:40									#3
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Only two completed:

1) My AU one-on-one with nbarclay. I got trashed.

2) The PTWDG. We got trashed.

	02-06-2005 00:53									#4
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The poll lacks the option: Have lots of PBEMs all of which are going to be completed. Or so I hope.

I think three of the ones I was in are over. All three with Paddy in them, of course.

EDIT: By "over" I meant "completed". For me, that is, as I was PWNed in one of them.

Last edited by Modo44 on 02-06-2005 at 02:55

	02-06-2005 01:00									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

what about Cold War? Failed, I believe.

	02-06-2005 01:38									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner what about Cold War? Failed, I believe.

Not if I can help it.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...601#post3831601
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...597#post3831597

	02-06-2005 02:26									#7
	Remove this text

I've only completed two games, and in both games I was bounced out before the ADs.

Of the remainder about 50% died, 50% are still running 15 months later, at varying paces.

	02-06-2005 09:50									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I've been in about 3 or 4 games that have been completed "for me", about the same number that have died for one reason or another.

In 4 active games at the moment, but 2 of them seem doubtful.

	02-06-2005 11:41									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I think three games might be considered completed for me - I was trashed twice and one ended with everyone's agreement Conqueror has won.

The fourth is the ISDG which may be not counted.

All other games by email died because of inactivity of one player

	05-06-2005 13:21									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Modo44
The poll lacks the option: Have lots of PBEMs all of which are going to be completed. Or so I hope.


Two on the verge of being completed

not wining in either of them

SO I went Banana

	06-06-2005 06:27									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

so you have to lose wait 2 win a pbem?

diety vs deity thingey

I wonder how do you define "finish"

if people quit then its "finished" am I not correct?

I just ask because too many game have started and just floated out on the river of Life

	06-06-2005 07:20									#12
	Re: Your success in completing a PBEM? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner I will define completion as a winner per the victory conditions of the game, or a consensus agreement among the players that there is a winner therefore no need to play on.

	06-06-2005 07:22									#13
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ok so if you have 3 people in a game and 2 havent been seen in a while and left you folding the bag..your the majority vote is the game "finished"?

	06-06-2005 07:25									#14
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I guess that one way to look at it! I, however, would call that failed. If someone wants to play on*, but the one or more players won't, that is failed.

* Assuming defined victory conditions for the game have not been achieved.

	06-06-2005 07:31									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

ok interesting point

suppose Im in a game and am getting whooped on

I just decide to stop playing and not respond

aint that wrong, to hold a person from "winning" by simply being awol?

It suxor da big one, but shouldnt the game be finished for the other player since you effectively have eliminated the will of your opponent to continue?

	06-06-2005 09:23									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll ok interesting point suppose Im in a game and am getting whooped on I just decide to stop playing and not respond aint that wrong, to hold a person from "winning" by simply being awol? It suxor da big one, but shouldnt the game be finished for the other player since you effectively have eliminated the will of your opponent to continue?

Yes it would suck and those still playing in the game have every right to replace you and continue on.

	06-06-2005 09:32									#17
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I've only had 1 out of countless PBEMs complete. A 3-player cooperative one we had many marathon sessions for.

	06-06-2005 14:40									#18
	Inflate your Upload Space

A quick tally shows the following stats for my PBEM's:

9 completed
5 dead
21 continuing

Total commenced: 35

That makes just over 25% completed.

As for the ones that died, 4 of them were due to one player just vanishing from the face of Apolyton, while the other one was a general consensus due to the fact that we had 2 AI and some dullard decided to set it up at Sid level....which was almost tolerable until they both declared war

	06-06-2005 14:45									#19
	Tired of ads?

I think it would have been better to ask how many PBEM's each player completed rather than the %.

Take Paddy - it doesn't matter how many he finishes, he will always struggle to reach 25%

	06-06-2005 14:48									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 the other one was a general consensus due to the fact that we had 2 AI and some dullard decided to set it up at Sid level....which was almost tolerable until they both declared war

I would say we lost, the AI won. This game counts as completed in my record.

	06-06-2005 14:53									#21
	Tired of ads?

I disagree, but only because PBEM's are a form of MP between humans and so by definition, an AI cannot win. They are there occasionally to add spice and allow us humans to exploit them

In this case, they were there because we all wanted to be humiliated

	06-06-2005 15:00									#22
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 I disagree, but only because PBEM's are a form of MP between humans and so by definition, an AI cannot win. They are there occasionally to add spice and allow us humans to exploit them

Yeah, epxploit them to get us killed without the need for us to declare war on each other.

quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 In this case, they were there because we all wanted to be humiliated

The setup was flawed, with too few AIs to fight each other, instead of us, humans.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...862#post3826749

	06-06-2005 17:22									#23
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll ok interesting point suppose Im in a game and am getting whooped on I just decide to stop playing and not respond aint that wrong, to hold a person from "winning" by simply being awol? It suxor da big one, but shouldnt the game be finished for the other player since you effectively have eliminated the will of your opponent to continue?

You are absolutely right. However, it's very difficult to replace a player when the civ they are taking over is already at a disadvantage.

	06-06-2005 18:36									#24
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

what can I say, a great game, and the human interaction through pbem gives it a whole new life...

yet then we have the human component... and thus the mysteries of "real life" which my cousin Hoskins tells me is a real threat to the pbem community

*Hoskins the Scot stands and waves

At this time we hereby announce that Clan Scot has: "Less than 25% of my PBEMs have succesfully completed," and in that we are not all that impressed.

so in this we of the Clan Scot have set up a new research facility on the EternalCrag. Here we will be looking in to this matter that could actually becoming a plague... in this research we hope to uncover some of the truths of this mysterious "real life" issue. and in that we just may find a successful answer on how to raise the bar and thus lift the average...

We are currently researching several matters.
1. New players should they only be invited into 3 - 4 player games, so they can learn and grow into the many and varied reponsibilities that really do exist within taking on a civilization in a play by email game.
2. A game of 8 - 12 players should only be undertaken with those with a known reputation for playing the game
3. Retiring a player - when and why?
4. How to get Rasputin a new hat.

* Paddy the Scot and Hoskins the Scot retire to the bar along the back wall of the auditorium

	06-06-2005 20:01									#25
	Got spare money?

Paddy's been drinking too much again.

	06-06-2005 21:42									#26
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 I disagree, but only because PBEM's are a form of MP between humans and so by definition, an AI cannot win. They are there occasionally to add spice and allow us humans to exploit them In this case, they were there because we all wanted to be humiliated

I disagree to your disagree

My definition of completion:

a game completed either by wining it or losing it to AI or Human

As GT said it aint right to keep someone from completeing their win.

Its too easy to walk away when the civ you are playing is losing in a bad way.

	23-06-2005 01:16									#27
	Put an end to popups!

Wins today.