02-06-2005 04:49									#1
	I'd like to see bridges over the rivers. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

In the shoots i cannot see them, if engineering is available, you are, in theory, able to build bridges, well, the new graphics are nice and fancy, but where are the bridges?

	02-06-2005 05:43									#2
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Sounds cluttered. With the Civ3 road/rail system covering every square, the rivers would look like zippers!

	02-06-2005 05:46									#3
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Perhaps a bridge here and there would be fine, does not need to be one in every square a river is.

	02-06-2005 05:51									#4
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It would be nice eye candy for when zoomed in, but it probably won't happen, since roads are textures (2d images stretched over 3d coordinates) and would look odd at river crossings if model bridges were there.

	02-06-2005 05:53									#5
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Bridges should be 3d, like the rest of the structures.

	02-06-2005 06:31									#6
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Some Questions:

Would Bridge Building be a tech that was required to learn how to build bridges?

Would Bridges just be a land improvement that could be built (just like mines, irrigation, etc.)?

Would Bridges simply appear as a civ expanded across a river?

	02-06-2005 07:29									#7
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1- If im not wrong, in all CIVs you requiered the Engineering technology for being able to build roads over rivers (aka, bridges). So, the answer is no.

2 - Dont think so, perhaps a road over a bridge should take a turn more, because is more complex to build than a normal road.

3 - Wha?

	02-06-2005 08:52									#8
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I think it would be nice just to see them graphically, whether or not you actually had bridge building.

	03-06-2005 06:12									#9
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Even in modern times, the effectiveness of rivers as strategic points were still viable.

It would be nice to be able to bomb bridges just to slow down enemies.

	03-06-2005 06:14									#10
	Put an end to popups!

You can. You bomb the roads.

	03-06-2005 06:52									#11
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quote: You can. You bomb the roads.

OK. How about establishing "artificial" choke-points?

	03-06-2005 08:58									#12
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The AI sometimes ignores even the best laid traps.

	03-06-2005 16:09									#13
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no bridges, get over it

would you want to mess with what type as well, then width, length...blah blah

	03-06-2005 16:15									#14
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quote: Originally posted by KyuuA4 OK. How about establishing "artificial" choke-points?

you can do that with ZOC

this is an operational level representation of tactical efforts.

	03-06-2005 18:03									#15
	Put an end to popups!

ummm......that's much better than a kitty in a boot.

Yes, you are absolutely right - ZOC is good rule.

	03-06-2005 18:26									#16
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is ZOC as we know it from SMAC back in Civ4?

if yes, i'm really happy

	03-06-2005 18:57									#17
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never played SMAC -- how did it work there?

	03-06-2005 19:00									#18
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't Is a quite blocking feature there.

	03-06-2005 21:00									#19
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quote: Originally posted by KyuuA4 OK. How about establishing "artificial" choke-points?

Fortresses.

	03-06-2005 22:52									#20
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder 't Is a quite blocking feature there.

???

quote: never played SMAC -- how did it work there?

I think Civ2 had the same system. When you were in in a square adjacent to an enemy unit, you couldn't move to a square that was also adjacent to either the same enemy unit or a different one. Unless of course you had a friendly unit in that square (think paratroopers). You could, however, attack the unit that is causing the ZOC.

By removing this feature in Civ3, they removed a big part of the tactical combat gameplay.

Smaller nations had a chance of stopping or slowing big stacks by simply fortifying units on mountains & forts. Paratroopers were useful in creating paths through enemy territory.

I really wish they bring back real ZOC. It was a big part of combat.

	04-06-2005 00:14									#21
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Ah...the traditional ZOC from military simulation board games (ala Avalon Hill, SPI, et al). yes, I also prefer that system.

Civ3 still has the zone of control to an extent, however it only occurs when an enemy unit moves from one square to another square within the unit's ZOC. And then, it doesn't seem to happen 100% only by a predetermined probability. The best you can do is knock of a HP from the moving enemy unit. It's much weaker.

	04-06-2005 03:19									#22
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In some ways the distinction of bridges doesn't work on this strategic scale. Over the length of a game turn it doesn't matter much whether units cross a bridge or use ferry service or even build their own ferryboats. If the river is really huge or in a deep canyon then ancient wood and stone bridgebuilding won't be any use.

	04-06-2005 20:57									#23
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If the river is really really huge, it might as well be represented by a sea square

	04-06-2005 22:16									#24
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Or a number of lakes interlinked.

	04-06-2005 22:40									#25
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Or a number of lakes interlinked.

Even the largest/widest rivers (like the Amazon) aren't that wide.

	09-06-2005 18:54									#26
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AFAIK, at its mouth its more than 20 km wide. Not enough for a world map (where a tile is 100 x 100 km), but on a map of South America...

	09-06-2005 21:15									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Straybow In some ways the distinction of bridges doesn't work on this strategic scale. Over the length of a game turn it doesn't matter much whether units cross a bridge or use ferry service or even build their own ferryboats. If the river is really huge or in a deep canyon then ancient wood and stone bridgebuilding won't be any use.

But it'd be nice to see them on the map, rather than the current ugliness of the road running under the river, IIRC.

	10-06-2005 07:17									#28
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quote: Originally posted by GAZ082 1- If im not wrong, in all CIVs you requiered the Engineering technology for being able to build roads over rivers (aka, bridges). So, the answer is no.

You are wrong.

In the original Civilization game, 'bridge building' was a tech all on its own.