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notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
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Aug 2001
time: 22:36
  Old Post 02-06-2005 10:16
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http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...?hub=TopStories
quote:
Court set to weigh terms of Homolka's freedom
CTV.ca News Staff

Little more than a month before her scheduled release, Karla Homolka's future will be argued in a Quebec court Thursday.

Homolka is set to walk away from a Joliette, Que. prison within weeks, but a team of Ontario lawyers is seeking to ensure that she won't be free to reoffend when she does.

Under the direction of Ontario Attorney General Michael Bryant, they intend to present evidence that could lead Judge Jean Beaulieu to impose further restrictions on the notorious criminal.

The Crown lawyers have kept tight-lipped about exactly what the evidence is, however.

"I cannot comment on that right now," lead Ontario lawyer James Ramsay told reporters Wednesday.

It is expected the lawyers will invoke Section 810 of the Criminal Code to ensure authorities can keep tabs on Homolka when she is released from prison.

Under Sec. 810, a judge can restrict someone's movements and associations, and even impose curfews, if there are grounds to believe they are a threat to the public.

"It is about considering whether or not a person who is being released and completed her sentence, in fact, should have restrictions placed on her and should be monitored,'' Bryant said.

But, considering that conditions imposed under Sec. 810 will only remain in effect for one year, CTV News has learned Ontario lawyers will seek a number of conditions on her release, including:

that she not associate with anyone with a criminal record
that she report to police twice a month
that she give police four days notice before travelling to Ontario, including a complete itinerary
that she not use any drugs or alcohol
that she stay away from parks, playgrounds and community centres
By next month, Homolka, 35, will have served her entire 12-year sentence for the manslaughter deaths of schoolgirls Kristen French and Leslie Mahaffy and her role in her sister Tammy's death.

The brutal nature of those crimes, however, and the so-called "deal with the devil" that saw Homolka get 12 years in exchange for testimony against her then-husband Paul Bernardo, has made her complete freedom an uneasy proposition.

Speaking out

Mary Smith, who spent five years in the same prison residence as Homolka, once considered her to be a best friend.

But now, recalling how Homolka used to talk about the death of her younger sister, Smith says she remains convinced the schoolgirl killer is still a danger.

"Karla has no remorse and it's sad," Smith told CTV. "She didn't think she did anything wrong ... She's very cold when she talks about her it's like nothing, it's like losing a pair of socks."

Smith's view is not shared by Homolka's psychiatrist, who told a Montreal newspaper the public is under no threat whatsoever.

But one of the jurors from the Paul Bernardo trial still wishes lawmakers could do more than just restrict Homolka or temporarily keep her in custody.

"I wish she was locked up forever but that's not a possibility," Tina Daenzer told CTV News.

Years after observing Homolka on the stand, Daenzer is haunted by memories of the slain schoolgirls. Especially by the horrifying images of their rape and torture that police found hidden in Homolka and Bernardo's home -- only after the Crown had struck its plea agreement.

"I think about their moms, those girls, I think about the life they never had and how their moms never got a chance to see them grow up, graduate and get married. I get angry that so much attention is focused on Karla."

In fact, interest in the day's proceedings is so great that two overflow rooms have been set up at the court to accommodate the curious.

Tim Danson, the lawyer for the victims, will be among those keeping a close eye on the unfolding events.

"Obviously, speaking for the family and on behalf of Jane Doe, we're very concerned that Karla Homolka represents a very serious threat to public safety. This is a very serious application. We have some concerns that it's happening in Quebec or any other province in Canada other than Ontario," Danson said.

"I think when this is all done the families may be seeking consultation with the federal officials to amend the Criminal Code because it is our view that 810 applications should be taking place in the venue where the crime took place and where there's the knowledge of what took place."

Meanwhile, Homolka's father said none of her family members will be waiting to greet her when she emerges from prison.

Karel Homolka said he's not quite ready to rebuild his relationship with his eldest daughter.

"Someday, I guess," the senior Homolka told The Canadian Press from his home in St. Catharines, Ont.

With reports from CTV News and The Canadian Press


The thing that bothers me about this is that so few are speaking up and saying that vindictive restrictions on a citizen who is paid up are not an acceptable part of our society. Indeed, voices for harsher provisions for the state over its citizens are given prominent play and nary a dissenting voice is heard.

Before anyone gets bent out of shape, I think Homolka is a walking endorcement for abortion of adult citizens who commit heinous crimes. However, our justice system had its way with her. What is being demanded now is an extended bite at the apple.

Anybody could be deemed a 'serious threat to public safety' even minority populations during a war.

MrFun is offline MrFun
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Nov 2000
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  Old Post 02-06-2005 17:17 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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Why do you hate your own country, NYE?

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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Mar 2003
time: 21:36
  Old Post 02-06-2005 17:23 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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Why not?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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Jan 1970
time: 00:36
  Old Post 02-06-2005 17:31
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So Quebec made a 'deal' with her and now is regretting their part in the deal? Yeah, when you reduce someone's sentance to testify against someone else, they get released early! SHOCK!

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
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Jul 2003
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  Old Post 02-06-2005 17:33
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Twelve years sounds like a fairly hefty sentence for multiple manslaughter, yet if I'm reading that right she got off easy thanks to that "pact with the devil"?

The Emperor Fabulous is offline The Emperor Fabulous
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Aug 1999
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  Old Post 02-06-2005 19:53
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Her pact with the devil was marrying that piece of ****

DanS is offline DanS
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Jan 1970
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quote:
Twelve years sounds like a fairly hefty sentence for multiple manslaughter


Skywise is offline Skywise
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Jan 2002
time: 05:36
  Old Post 02-06-2005 20:29
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http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=134474


MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:36
  Old Post 02-06-2005 20:52
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
The thing that bothers me about this is that so few are speaking up and saying that vindictive restrictions on a citizen who is paid up are not an acceptable part of our society. Indeed, voices for harsher provisions for the state over its citizens are given prominent play and nary a dissenting voice is heard.


She "paid up" only because prosecutors botched and made a deal before they found all the relevant evidence in the case.

Given that her deal was premised on the flawed notion that she was an abused victim somewhat forced to participate, and the evidence recovered after the deal showed she was a full and willing accomplice, it doesn't seem like much of an "abuse" of the existing law to impose conditions on her which are far milder than either remaining in prison, being strapped to a gurney, or the kinds of restrictions imposed under most US state laws on registered sex offenders.

To me, it's hard to argue these are vindictive measures as opposed to a rare use of relatively mild protective measures, given the magnitude of her crimes, and the false premises of her culpability which led to her far too mild sentence under a plea deal.

Mrs. Tuberski is offline Mrs. Tuberski
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Jan 2005
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  Old Post 02-06-2005 21:37
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This is atually one book I read. This ***** isnt no more innocent then that piece of s*** husband she had. She helped rape and kill her own sister. That is just inexcusable. being a masrried woman there is nothing tubes could do to me that would make me go along with that crap. If the fact she killed her own sister isnt bad enough the fact that there was more the 4 girls they held captive and used for sex toys. If you ask my 12 years aint long enough.

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
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Jul 2003
time: 06:36
  Old Post 02-06-2005 21:44
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@DanS: Where I live, the maximum sentence for manslaughter is 10 years.

Still, from reading the links in the other thread, her "multiple manslaughter" was rather something like multiple murders, kidnappings, rapes, and sexual assaults, topped of with indignity on a human corpse, so she got off easy.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
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  Old Post 02-06-2005 21:50 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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I reluctantly agree with nye.

Wezil is offline Wezil
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Nov 1999
time: 02:06
  Old Post 02-06-2005 22:16
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The problem is the public does not feel justice was done.

The AG of Ontario is to some extent trying to placate public outrage by appearing to be as tough as possible while still living within the confines of her 'deal'. My guess is his motions will fail, and even if he can convince a Judge to impose the conditions we will have to go through this routine every 12 months. Best to let it go at this point.

Her deal should have been revoked when it was learned she was not truthful (the video rapes she 'forgot' about). Too late now.

Imran - Quebec did not make the deal with her - Ontario did. Our socialist gov of the day bought her 'abused spouse' story.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:36
  Old Post 02-06-2005 22:29
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quote:
Her deal should have been revoked when it was learned she was not truthful (the video rapes she 'forgot' about). Too late now.


Yep... exactly. You can't just keep the deal and then say well, we don't like what we had to agree with.

quote:
Imran - Quebec did not make the deal with her - Ontario did. Our socialist gov of the day bought her 'abused spouse' story.


Ah... well that doesn't surprise me.

St Leo is offline St Leo
King of Scenario League
Member of the Apolyton Social Democratic Party
Jul 2005
time: 00:36
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quote:
I think Homolka is a walking endorcement for abortion of adult citizens who commit heinous crimes.


Ahem.

* St Leo climbs on soap box

By definition, it's impossible to abort a person, adult or otherwise, citizen or otherwise.

* St Leo climbs down

Oy. This whole party line business is thirsty work. That is why I Obey My Thirst™ and drink Sprite™. It's the Thirst-Quencher™.

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
Emperor
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 02-06-2005 23:21
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I don't see where the threat to public safety is.

Wezil is offline Wezil
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Nov 1999
time: 02:06
  Old Post 02-06-2005 23:55
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quote:
Originally posted by General Ludd
I don't see where the threat to public safety is.


She is evil Ludd. Hooked up with the 'right' person in the future she will be very dangerous.

Apparently her current boyfriend is serving time for killing his girlfriend. Let's hope he will be a repeat offender...

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
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  Old Post 03-06-2005 00:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Wezil


She is evil Ludd. Hooked up with the 'right' person in the future she will be very dangerous.


That "right" person would be the real threat to public safety then, wouldn't it? And he's already a part of the public.

While she certainly has alot of issues, I don't know if she is evil or just criminally naive and insecure. She only played a role of support in the rapes. Paul was the predator, not her.

In many regards she was another one of Paul's victims only that she apparently enjoyed it, or atleast got something out of it - enough to encourage him, and even help him in doing it, because she wanted to make him happy. Like a willing slave - certainly accountable, but not neccisarily dangerous.



Either way... how is this any different than any other criminal being released from prison. Is every person that's done there time and released a threat to pbulic safety? Should we keep everyone in prison untill they die... or better yet, just kill anyone accused of a crime, so that they will never again be a "threat to public safety"?

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
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Oct 1999
time: 21:36
  Old Post 03-06-2005 00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by General Ludd


That "right" person would be the real threat to public safety then, wouldn't it? And he's already a part of the public.

While she certainly has alot of issues, I don't know if she is evil or just criminally naive and insecure. She only played a role of support in the rapes. Paul was the predator, not her.

In many regards she was another one of Paul's victims only that she apparently enjoyed it, or atleast got something out of it - enough to encourage him, and even help him in doing it, because she wanted to make him happy. Like a willing slave - certainly accountable, but not neccisarily dangerous.



Either way... how is this any different than any other criminal being released from prison. Is every person that's done there time and released a threat to pbulic safety? Should we keep everyone in prison untill they die... or better yet, just kill anyone accused of a crime, so that they will never again be a "threat to public safety"?


We could do a good job by eliminating proven killers.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither


notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 03-06-2005 06:42
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


She "paid up" only because prosecutors botched and made a deal before they found all the relevant evidence in the case.

Given that her deal was premised on the flawed notion that she was an abused victim somewhat forced to participate, and the evidence recovered after the deal showed she was a full and willing accomplice, it doesn't seem like much of an "abuse" of the existing law to impose conditions on her which are far milder than either remaining in prison, being strapped to a gurney, or the kinds of restrictions imposed under most US state laws on registered sex offenders.

To me, it's hard to argue these are vindictive measures as opposed to a rare use of relatively mild protective measures, given the magnitude of her crimes, and the false premises of her culpability which led to her far too mild sentence under a plea deal.


Yes, but...

The representatives of the Crown made decisions about how to proceed and the book on Karla was closed. If they wanted a longer term, they should have gone after that at the time and it would have been argued in front of the judge at that time.

What we have here is a later government using... worrying provisions of the Criminal Code to specifically target unpopular people. That doesn't jive with justice being blind in my book.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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  Old Post 03-06-2005 07:14
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I wonder if she would have qualified for dangerous offender status had that been available when she was convicted.

Oncle Boris is offline Oncle Boris
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 03-06-2005 08:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So Quebec made a 'deal' with her and now is regretting their part in the deal? Yeah, when you reduce someone's sentance to testify against someone else, they get released early! SHOCK!


I know you don't like us, but the original deal wasn't made in a Quebec court.

Mrs. Tuberski is offline Mrs. Tuberski
Princess
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Jan 2005
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  Old Post 03-06-2005 09:13
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This chick is no more naive then anybody else. she knew exactly what she was doing... For the courts to decide oh poor thing was under some dumb ass dudes spell is ridiculous. She claims she did the horrible ats she did cause of her choice in men how is that she can be trusted again?? she is still a danger to society in my opinion cause her whole defense rests on she cant think for herself.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 03-06-2005 09:21
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Is the person who negotiated that deal still with the government? It seems poorly negotiated if her lieing didn't render it void.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
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Oct 2002
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  Old Post 03-06-2005 09:21
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quote:

While she certainly has alot of issues, I don't know if she is evil or just criminally naive and insecure. She only played a role of support in the rapes. Paul was the predator, not her.


How do we know this? Perhaps it was her who spurred Paul on, and because they needed her testimony to get Paul, we are now letting out the catalyst. I don't think it is acceptable to blame someone else for your own failings, and I don't think we should be letting her out, especially since the new evidence that has been uncovered has shown precisely how she had been involved. At the time of her arrest, they didn't know what we know now about her role, and there has been great outcry over commuting her sentence in order to secure her testimony in the first place.

She has shown no remorse for her victims, nothing to indicate that her time in prison has changed her mindset in any way.

We are more concerned with civil liberties for those who are a threat to society than we are for those who actually want to contribute to Canada. When a young woman can get arrested for 3 months just for praying near an abortion clinic, without any outcry from those who claim to protect civil liberties, and then the same folks say we should let Karla Holmolka out now, it makes me wonder what value is there of civil liberties here in Canada.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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  Old Post 03-06-2005 10:48
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No, Ben, this did not just dawn on the government of Ontario and the Canadian public.

Knowledge of her involvement preceded her being sentenced. The Crown left the deal stand.

What has changed is that several inflamatory books have been published, and spokespeople for victims families have had twelve years to work themselves and the public into a lather.

Now, I agree that the feelings of the victims should be taken into account in sentencing. However, I strongly disagree that victims should be allowed to influence the courts into forcing an individual to carry a scarlet letter until they die.

You get sentenced and you do your time. In Karla's case she did it all, since the uproar of the victims would not allow the possibility of parole. That's it. She got sentenced and she did her time.

There is little difference from wanting a court to slap on additional proscriptions in this case at this point from wanting a court to agree that someone who had committed no crime at all was 'a threat to public safety.' In both cases a government would be targetting unpopular individuals with penalties based on public pressure, not justice.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 03-06-2005 11:07
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quote:
She "paid up" only because prosecutors botched and made a deal before they found all the relevant evidence in the case.


Both the police and the leading author on the case (who is no friend of the police) have stated that they needed her testimony no matter what, and that they already knew about the tapes and their contents before she got the deal. Your story is just a rabble rousing tabloid version and was refuted again in the Toronto Star this very weak.

I think it is fine to require that very dangerous criminals submit to restrictions on release. Punishment is about lowering the risk to the general public. Only a fool would let out a person with a terrible compulsion to commit rape without any form of restriction.

But Homolka in all likelihood is not dangerous. Sure, she's a pathetic self-centred ***** and she would have been even if she had never met Bernardo. But he abused her and beat her into submission so that she would do anything he said. From all accounts she used to be a dominant personality herself, until she met him. It's like he put her under a spell and was able to control her whole life, what she wore, who she spoke to, etc. Just like Myra Hindley in fact.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Dec 2002
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Double Penetration.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:36
  Old Post 03-06-2005 11:15
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NYE:

The charges would not be based on public sentiment, but rather on the evidence convicting Holmolka that has been uncovered after the deal which cut short her time in jail. I see nothing wrong, given the increased evidence, for the courts to extend her prison time. For once it would be a proper sentence rather than the laughable wrist slaps handed down by most of the Canadian courts.

As for Agathon, if you feel that Holmolka is not a threat then you should have no problems having her as a neighbour.

 
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