03-06-2005 07:39									#1
	Civilization II Multiplayer Gold for MAC OS X Remove this text

Does anyone know of a patch that will enable me to play Civilization II Multiplayer Gold through MAC OS X?

MAC OS X Tiger no longer enables classic OS.

Thank you.

	03-06-2005 13:26									#2
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I wish I could help you, but I cannot. It does, however, suck to learn that Civ II is no longer playable on 10.4.x short of, I imagine, installing 9.x in its own partition on the HD.

Gatekeeper

	13-06-2005 03:12									#3
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No patch seems to exist then. It really is a shame.

Guess I will have to wait for Civilization IV. Hope they don't screw it up like they did with civ III.

The only OS 9 application I use is CIV II. I am going to need to install the OS 9 system folder just to play the game. Ridiculous! Someone should develop a patch. I am sure some people would even pay for it... I would.

	13-06-2005 04:53									#4
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True, but would enough be willing to pay for it to make financial sense? Probably not. Which is too bad, since I still consider Civ II to be the best of the series, even if it's 10 years old.

Gatekeeper

	20-06-2005 21:29									#5
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Scanning the Apple Discussion groups, it appears that the Classic environment, does run on 10.4.1, but the Tiger installer does not contain a Classic installer.

So... it seems that if you already have Classic installed and upgrade to Tiger, or if you have an older set of install CD's which contain the Classic/OS 9 installers, you should be able to get it up and running.

But they certainly aren't making it easy...

	20-06-2005 22:25									#6
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So basically, if I order a damn Macintosh with 10.4 on it, I'm screwed because the jackasses at Apple decided not to include the Classic installers?! I don't have access to installers for older OSes, other than for my ancient 8.5.1 installer CDs.

God! If it isn't one thing it's another with Apple. I'm really getting ****ing tired of it. Screw computers. Someone get me a system that does Internet, e-mail and includes a word processor, and I'll be happy.

Gatekeeper

	21-07-2005 09:50									#7
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How many timess do I have to say this: Classic does not come preinstalled on new macs, but it comes on a CD should you wish to install it. I just did on my new Powerbook.

Now.... please resume...

	21-07-2005 11:00									#8
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^^^I found that out on June 20th, hence the reason for no further posting. This is what I uncovered, verbatim, from Apple's knowledge base:

Out of the box, some Macintosh computers manufactured after June 2004 do not have Classic pre-installed, including iMac G5, Mac mini, and some Power Macintosh G5 computers. Classic is available on one of the Apple software discs that came with the computer, and you can install it if you need to.

To install Classic support:

1. Insert the disc that came with your computer that contains Classic support ("Additional Software & Apple Hardware Test" for iMac G5 and some Power Macintosh G5 computers, Software Restore discs for others--check the labels on the discs).

2. Double-click the "Install Extra Software" icon.

3. Follow the onscreen instructions.

4. After selecting the destination disk for installation, continue following the onscreen instructions for a basic installation or click Customize to choose the applications you want to install.

	24-07-2005 10:41									#9
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The carbon patch that allows classic applications to be played through OS X is the only way to play Civilization II on new macs.

Here is why:

Classic support has flaws when playing Civilization II. Music and animated graphics do not work for example. New Macintoshs do not Support OS 9, therefore you cannot install a startup disk that runs OS 9.2.

In summation... 1, Classic support through OS X has flaws. Game does not run properly. 2, New Macs do not allow you to install an OS 9 startup disk.

So, these are the reasons why Civilization II Gold will not be able to be played on new Macintoshs.

Solution: Wait for a carbon patch that will never come or wait for Civilization IV.

	01-08-2005 10:51									#10
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Either way, you're not going to get anywhere.

The best chance is wait for Apple to switch to Intel, buy a new comp then, get a copy of Windows, and a copy of Civ II for Windows. There should be plenty of hacks that allow you to run Windows on a Mactel after a few months that you can have your Civ II back.

Classic goes the way of the dodo as of the Mactel switch anyway, so getting the windows version is about all you can do. Either that or buy a new mac right before the switch.

Civ II works fine in Classic for me. As does CTP. SMAX, on the other hands, runs horribly slowly. While there is a user-made patch for SMAX to make it 'Carbon' it hasn't been updated for the newer versions of OS X so it's rather unstable now (have to depend on auto-save because manually saving generally crashes it).

	02-08-2005 13:31									#11
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If Civ II works in Classic for FlameFlash, I'm sure it'll work for me too once I get around to buying a middle-of-the-road iMac (i.e. the $1500 model).

Gatekeeper

	05-08-2005 10:29									#12
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I give up. I'm never going to find the time to finish this properly...

Go here... read carefully... download.

It works beautifully for me on my 20" display on 10.4.2. Two problems that I know of, both cosmetic.

Enjoy...

	05-08-2005 12:34									#13
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^^^I'll be damned. I never knew you were posting at 'Poly! Although I should've suspected it, since a lot of folks involved in the Civ community come here from time to time.

Long time, no see! Lord, I still have an old e-mail or two somewhere on my HD from that time you sent me a copy of C:CTP after helping you out with some debugging issues WRT to Civ II Gold for the Macintosh.

Heh. I'm still using OS8.6, but I'm definitely writing down the Web address so that when I upgrade I can scurry on over if I have to. Civ II is simply a timeless game! **sigh** If only Civ III or the forthcoming IV would be along similar lines ... heck, I've never necessarily had a problem with ".5" additions to well-established gaming series like Civ!

Gatekeeper

	06-08-2005 12:55									#14
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If I had to choose between playing Civ II or Civ III, I'd have no choice but to go with the former. Why? The latter is simply an incomplete game on the Macintosh, that's why. For example (in no particular order):

1. Officially supported only through the 1.21 patch. Never mind the fact that major changes came with the 1.29 patch, to me the patch that really counted.

2. Map editor was never officially ported over.

3. Civilization placement is impossible.

4. The entire installation process is irritating — one, buy the game (which ships with the 1.17 patch included); two, patch it up to 1.21; three, duplicate the application; four, update one of the app versions to 1.29; five, retain the other version, which is necessary in order for the unofficial map editor to work; six, pray.

The Civ III Macintosh porters really dropped the ball. I mean, REALLY DROPPED THE BALL. I'm *not* talking about Joe and Jane Programmer, either. I'm talking about *their* bosses, the ones who make the policy decisions. Terrible, I tell you, especially after how Civ II and its Gold version were ported and *supported* even to the point where programmers were doing stuff on *their* own time! That's dedication, and for that I'm forevermore grateful.

I fervently hope that when (not if) Civ IV comes to the Macintosh, TPTB at its porting company look to the example of Civ II, and not III, for how to do a proper port. For the premium price folks pay in order to own a Macintosh, they deserve a premium effort when it comes to porting games, especially ones as venerable as the Civ series.

The folks in charge of Civ II did it right. The ball's in your court, Civ IV folks!

Gatekeeper

	06-08-2005 16:49									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Insane I give up. I'm never going to find the time to finish this properly... Go here... read carefully... download. It works beautifully for me on my 20" display on 10.4.2. Two problems that I know of, both cosmetic. Enjoy...

Sweet! Thanks, very much Insane (aka B. Neese)! This is very cool. Hope things are going well for you. The Mac-Civ community is indebted to you for this. Thanks again!

	06-08-2005 17:06									#16
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Can't say I disagree with you at all Gatekeeper. Not to excuse MacSoft, but if Firaxis would release a polished product this time around w/ cIV, things will turn out much better for us. Since Civ3 was released severely bugged, it ate up the monies for patches. I don't think MacSoft is going to adopt Paradox's business model though. Paradox is always patching their games, even just for game features rather than just for bugs. You got to like that. Fortunately, VPLtd. continues to bring those patches to us.

quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper 2. Map editor was never officially ported over.

Well, the editor is official, it's just for the 1.21g version.

quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper ... even to the point where programmers were doing stuff on *their* own time! That's dedication, and for that I'm forevermore grateful.

Me too! But, don't forget that Brad Oliver, on his own time, for no money, started and finished the 1.29 patch (which is 1.29b2). He submitted a FC to MacSoft, as he stated in the CFC mac forum. Also, he built a shell of the editor for the 1.29f patch, whcih would be identical to the current editor for the PC version, but he can't finish it now because he works for Aspyr.

	06-08-2005 23:47									#17
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Dojoboy:

There be activity in this forum! Hallujah!

Anyway, how does the carbonized version of Civ II look in 10.4.x for you? Heh. Would you believe that at about the same time Insane posted, I received in the mail the latest catalog from MacZONE. Coincidence? I think not! It's karma, I tell you, karma!

BTW, I need a refresher course on carbon apps: Does one install the original application, then apply the patches that Insane linked to? Or do the items linked to contain everything that's needed, with no original app installation needed?

Gatekeeper

	07-08-2005 02:02									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper ^^^I'll be damned. I never knew you were posting at 'Poly!

Well, it's a poorly kept secret... Our long lost administrator "MacUser" figured it out on my very first post. But I had been chatting with him via email before that, so it probably doesn't count. I've posted links to my "site" before... apparently you didn't follow them.

quote: Long time, no see! Lord, I still have an old e-mail or two somewhere on my HD from that time you sent me a copy of C:CTP after helping you out with some debugging issues WRT to Civ II Gold for the Macintosh.

Yes, it has indeed been awhile. At least 5, and probably going on 7-8 years.

quote: Heh. I'm still using OS8.6, but I'm definitely writing down the Web address so that when I upgrade I can scurry on over if I have to.

And that doesn't surprise me a bit The carbonized app isn't doing anything particularly fancy, it will probably run on 8.6 with the latest CarbonLib installed. But, no promises... Heck, I've never run it on any system other than mine... It may not run at all if not installed on my hard drive for all I know.

quote: Originally posted by dojoboy Thanks, very much Insane (aka B. Neese)!

That's B. Nesse to you. And, other than not having enough hours in the day, I'm doing quite fine thank you. But, don't thank me until you know it runs.

	07-08-2005 03:32									#19
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^^^Good to hear that life is treating you well!

Ah, you brought up another long-lost name from yesteryear ... yes, our good MacUser, who I haven't seen at 'Poly in four years or so. I do hope he's doing OK. He's a good guy, I tell ya.

FWIW, I'm still playing the original Civ II on my system. It's such great, customizable game! Heck, I've got at least a dozen unique Earth maps, I've altered two AI civilizations into new nations (Greeks to Amazons, and the Zulu to Draka), and have added techs and units to the RULES.TXT file. Goodness, I hope I can somehow transfer those over to the carbonized version of Civ II Gold. And, well, if not, that's I'll just simply do it the old-fashioned way: Retype and recreate everything!

WRT to the carbon's effectiveness, we'll wait to hear back from Dojoboy and others, who I'm sure are having fun with it right now. And, yes, I can only claim ignorance WRT not knowing about past links to your goodies ... alas, I didn't peruse the C:CTP Mac forum very much and must have been wearing shades in the other Mac forums. I hear rose-colored is popular right now.

Gatekeeper

P.S. Those e-mails are actually roughly 5.5 years old! My, time does fly!

	07-08-2005 03:53									#20
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About the carbon patch...

Many thanks to the guy who did it (Insane). I used it. The cosmetic problems include: No music, piece movement is faulty, The arrow bar used to scroll up and down and left and right does not appear, appearance is a bit blurry (but you cannot notice it). So those are the problems I have noticed to date.

Also, I have not tried to play a multiplayer game but I would suppose it works fine.

Something to have in mind is that the game, nevertheless, works better with this carbonization than with Classic environment through OS X.

Thank you again.

	07-08-2005 11:29									#21
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Yes, the music works during the opening, but ceases to play during the game. The scrollbars are there, but do not become visible until you click on them. The pieces not sliding is annoying because you can't see where attacks are happening.

I'm not sure what you mean about it being blurry. One thing I've noticed is that it defaults to a view which is *NOT* Standard Zoom this makes everything scale. You can simply select Standard Zoom to fix this.

I also just discovered that you should turn off Animated Heralds. Seems they crash.

	07-08-2005 11:56									#22
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Well, that's not serious loss, especially if it's the Viking herald.

	08-08-2005 06:37									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Insane Yes, the music works during the opening, but ceases to play during the game.

Could this be because the cd isn't in. Even in Classic, the music would not play w/ out the cd. IIRC.

quote: Originally posted by Insane That's B. Nesse to you. And, other than not having enough hours in the day, I'm doing quite fine thank you. But, don't thank me until you know it runs.

Whoops. I did get it right over at the IMG forums though.

I haven't played deep into a game yet, but it is working.

	11-08-2005 22:25									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Insane Yes, the music works during the opening, but ceases to play during the game.

Will not play w/ the cd in, either. But, you can play the soundtrack through iTunes while playing the game.

	12-08-2005 11:18									#25
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I stopped playing with the music years ago so that, too, is no serious loss.

I've also played with "fast piece move" enabled for years, so not seeing where the attacks take place isn't necessarily a bad thing, either, unless the screen itself doesn't even jump to where the AI is doing its schtick.

Gatekeeper