17-06-2005 00:47									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

True, Ascetism is a philosophy, not a technology, but technology is needed in order to enforce and construct such a philosophy...while certain individuals may believe in ascetism, in order to spread the idea to a whole population requires technology, science of the human brain, human psychology, heck, even trial and error to see if ascetism can truly be embraced when Morgan and Santiago are right next store to you...

Civ 3 is a good example of such a thing...the "technology" Monarchy requires Polytheism. Why? Because without the belief of Gods, Monarchy wouldn't work. The fact that the "King" is chosen by or is a descedant of the Gods requires the idea that Gods exist in the first place...

Or, how about Fascism? The basis of this government is nationalism, national identity...with nationalism, the whole idea of fascism falls apart...

While I don't necessarily agree that Fascism should be it own tech (just as I don't think Ascetic Virtues needs to be its own tech), technology is required in order to construct the idea...does a rocket engine require the knowledge of the wheel? No, but the wheel is needed to construct the tools needed to construct the tools needed to construct the rocket.

	17-06-2005 08:58									#32
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Okay, let's consider the Ascetic Virtues. Planetary Economics is the required tech to build it. It would seem that, in the face of increased industrial might, rampant consumerism, and increased materialism, a faction, particularily Hive, Believer, Spartan, Cult, even the University, might want to reject things like consumerism and capitalism. The members of the faction with the Ascetic Virtues would be less focused on individual wealth and the aquistion of it and more on improving their own faction and, ultimately, the entire human race. The results of which, as presented by the game, are that people don't mind living close together in less than exclusive conditions. That is, the largest home size would be much smaller. Things like drinking water, food and cleaning services might be centralized and not in as many people's homes. The tolerance for Police I don't quite understand. Maybe it's the huge amount of public indoctrination involved in implimenting the Ascetic Virtues (so why not include a part about no rioting or something?), it could be that people become more likely to accept that an army is needed to defend their way of life (that is, against rampant capitalism and those violently opposed to Asceticism).

So, the Ascetic Virtues might be a philosophy, but to get the entire faction's population to accept it would require a huge amount of resoruces to produce media spreading the messages, to construct and/or reorganize schools to teach the Virtues to students, to reorganize the entire economy so that it can still compete in a (now) planetary economy. If everyone in that faction needs less of everything (especially luxury items) to be happy and are happy to be working in mines, factories or other industries that produce only useful and practical products, then the faction now wields increased industrial and economic exporting might.

Although, I'd like to see someone explain how the Morganites would benefit from or incorperate the Ascetic Virtues from a story p.o.v.

	17-06-2005 10:33									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

OK, I'll give that a try. In a faction like Morgan the Ascetic Virtues are implemented through a Heinleinesque system of military service bequeathing public privileges such as sufferage. This is extended to secondary education in military schools being seen as preferable to indulgent public schools. Thus service itself is venerated and outcry from military units outside borders reduced. The public who do not choose service see the value of patience, not seeking emotional gratification through rioting, etc.

Police themselves are effectively made military reservists, and beyond that many social services are performed by military personnel (Corp of Engineers for roadbuilding and other infrastructure). A larger percentage of the populace lives in the limited space and privacy that comes with military service.

	17-06-2005 12:05									#34
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by binTravkin Why then people still try and invest big money to replicate it? Just because someone built a computer in a garage? Nope.

AFAIK, the Chinese isn't trying to replicate Silicon Valley per se. It's just used as a convienent moniker to denote a place where you have a high concentration of techies and geeks with a kind of management style similar to the companies in the Valley.

As far as I see it though it's an obsolete model. The Web replaced all. You can communicate and socialise with people from every corner around the globe in real time without leaving your home, and form groups that will get work done because they strike it off.

This is the future.

	17-06-2005 12:47									#35
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

But isn't the Ascetic Virtues and the Morganics mutually exclusive? I mean, I hate to focus mostly on the A.V. but I think I understand this Sp more than the other ones.

The basic Morganite ideology is wealth and materialism whereas the A.V. preaches...erm...asceticism. But then again, I can sort of see how it could be adapted into a quasi-Morganite doctrine. Lower vs. Upper class distinction or whatever.


But things like the Space Elevator are also troubling...okay, so that would be an actual construction...but why would it prevent another faction from building their own S.E.?

	18-06-2005 09:24									#36
	Support Apolyton

Nothing actually prevents another faction from building the Space Elevator... except cost. There would also be many technical problems to overcome that the building faction might not be willing to hand over. Besides, the Drop-anywhere ability is soon made obsolete. A militant or research orientied faction might decide to look for a 'better' way to Drop-anywhere. A builder faction might decide that it'd be cheaper to pay the Elevator-controlling faction a fee to launch their sats. Instead of building another Elevator, the other factions might decide that they will just spend the resources elsewhere. It's a bit of a stretch, really. I think, for the most part, this Project is a matter of game balance (but would it really unbalance the game if everyone could build one?).

What I'd like to see would be the results of the destruction of the Space Elevator. Remember the Mars books? 64,000 km of Space Elevator fell and circled the planet 2.5 times, doing massive damage to the bases that lay in its path... although it was mostly the city at the base of the Elevator that took most of the damage, since Mars wasn't that populated. I'd like to see this effect in AC2, if a faction destoys the city that builds the Elevator. Or maybe make it a special Probe Team action (maybe require like 4 or 5 teams at once to increase the odds to 50%). Then *whoosh* there's a trench that circles the planet, 1/4 loss of pop in all cities along the path and destroys all improvements.

You know what'd be cool too? If Boreholes (or maybe just Boreholes under construcion) could be Probe targets too. Team hijacks the Former, it digs too deep and creates a mini-volcano that causes all kinds of chaos. Maybe it could only be done 1 or 2 turns before the Borehole is to be finished. Either that or use the combination of a Team and a Former on an existing Borehole.

Okay, I'm done.

	19-06-2005 05:51									#37
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: [SIZE=1]You know what'd be cool too? If Boreholes (or maybe just Boreholes under construcion) could be Probe targets too. Team hijacks the Former, it digs too deep and creates a mini-volcano that causes all kinds of chaos. Maybe it could only be done 1 or 2 turns before the Borehole is to be finished. Either that or use the combination of a Team and a Former on an existing Borehole.

This, for a long time, has puzzled me...

Let's look at earth for a moment...the deepest mine, tunnel, whatever, that I know of is some mine in Russia, about 6 miles deep....and yet we have sent satellites into space, past Jupiter and Saturn, beyond our solar system...heck, there is more progress on building a colonizing spaceship than there is digging big holes to the core of the earth...

So I have to ask...on a planet like Chiron that has even less resources, how can humans possibly manage to build boreholes and deep 1000km mines, and yet, not be able to build simple satellites...after all, history shows space flight is a lot easier than digging boreholes...we have space flight, and yet we're still waiting for those boreholes...

	19-06-2005 06:20									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Simple.

Research Gene Splicing, then Ecological Engineering.

	19-06-2005 17:28									#39
	Increase the size of your Attachments

On the subject of special projects, is there a way to add extra projects into the game by editing the alphax.txt or are they hardcoded and only the set ones are allowed ??
something like cost 1500 mins, free tree farm at all bases (still grossly overpowerful i know, just an example)
Also if it is possible, can the same be done for adding more facilities ?

	19-06-2005 19:01									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The SP's are hardcoded, no possibility to include more, or change existing ones properties. The cost of the existing ones can easily be changed tho.

	20-06-2005 05:16									#41
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Lazerus On the subject of special projects, is there a way to add extra projects into the game by editing the alphax.txt or are they hardcoded and only the set ones are allowed ?? something like cost 1500 mins, free tree farm at all bases (still grossly overpowerful i know, just an example) Also if it is possible, can the same be done for adding more facilities ?

There are some SPs that could be added more than once...the supercollider and theory of everthing for example, have exactly the same advantages IIRC...also, the Bulk Matter Transmitter (which actually increases minerals by 50%, it does NOT add two) wouldn't be a bad SP to have multiples of...you can add more SPs, just, they will all have the same advantages...

	20-06-2005 14:08									#42
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

cool, 8 super colliders at a base lol

	20-06-2005 14:17									#43
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

@commy: care to show us how this is possible? SP's are hardcoded AFAIK. (or do you mean giving similar names to SP's with the same properties?)

	20-06-2005 19:09									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

He was thinking that Theory Of Everything anf Supercollider give the same effect, thus you effectively double and SP.

	20-06-2005 20:20									#45
	Increase Your PM Length

Essentially, they do that.

Oh man, am I tempted to reorganize the tech tree again.

	21-06-2005 00:00									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by GeoModder (or do you mean giving similar names to SP's with the same properties?)

Yes, this is what I mean...IIRC, there is numerous blank SP slots on SMAX, if you ever wanted to create a new SP...while I don't think any new method has been found to add new advantages, SPs can certainly be added and removed, or have multiples simply by using the advantages of one SP more than once and changing the names...

This would, in affect, allow you to have 2 human genome projects, or 2 oppurtunities to get free command centers, or something like that...

	21-06-2005 00:11									#47
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Oh man, am I tempted to reorganize the tech tree again.

Been there, done that.

	21-06-2005 15:40									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Bah! I don't think it would be feasible to have mutliple SP's....sure, it would be understandible (i.e., Cloning Vats in multiple bases), but I don't think it would increase the fun factor by a whole much.



Half the fun of AC is flattening your opponents with SinBusters...

	21-06-2005 17:33									#49
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by SynthetGod8 Nothing actually prevents another faction from building the Space Elevator... except cost.

Very true. You may also recall that the Soviet space program never made it to the moon . . . not even after 1969 when the American program achieved it (proving it could be done). In this case, as is probably the case with many of Alpha Centauri's secret projects, the psychological effect (raising one's own morale, confidence, and assertiveness while simultaneously lowering the morale, confidence, and assertiveness of one's opponent) is as important or more important than whether or not the project can physically be replicated.

	22-06-2005 06:47									#50
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

That's because the Soviet economy wasn't robust enough. If they had equal economic strength they might well have continued their manned program to the moon.