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Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 03:38
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Legalese: Bail Forfeiture? Get a bigger avatar today!

Okay, I got a background check back on a prospective employee. Looks something like this:

NAME: Public, John Q.
DOB: xx/xx/xxxx
State: WA
County: Whatever County Police Dept.
Case Number: XXXXXXXXX
Cast Type: MISDEMEANOR
Offense Date: xx/xx/xxxx
Offense: POSSESSION OF DRUG PARAPHERNALIA
Disposition Date: xx/xx/xxxx
Dispostion: BAIL FORFEITURE

There are no other details. What does the bail forfeiture mean? It's not the same as jumping bail, I take it? And does this count as a criminal conviction for the misdemeanor?

Thanks for any help.

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
King
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Feb 1999
time: 21:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 03:42
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My understanding is that it does mean jumping bail. That is, if you jump bail, you forefeit it.

It's not a misdeameanor -- I don't think.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 03:42
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For infraction or some misdemeanor offenses, (a la routine traffic tickets) you just mail in a fine in lieu of a court appearance. Since a "fine" is a post-judgment remedy (meaning after trial), technically, money paid before trial is "bail."

It just means he paid the money stated on the notice, and that's the end of the issue. Same as a guilty plea, but no trial or trial proceeding.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
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Jun 2002
time: 05:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 03:44
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Check and see if their's a bounty out for him!

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 03:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Zkribbler
My understanding is that it does mean jumping bail. That is, if you jump bail, you forefeit it.

It's not a misdeameanor -- I don't think.


Nope - jumping bails lead to revocation of bail and issuance of a warrant for arrest, generally with the addition of an FTA (failure to appear) charge.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
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Jun 2002
time: 05:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 03:45
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I forfeited bail when I got a speeding ticket. Paid up.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 03:51
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
For infraction or some misdemeanor offenses, (a la routine traffic tickets) you just mail in a fine in lieu of a court appearance. Since a "fine" is a post-judgment remedy (meaning after trial), technically, money paid before trial is "bail."

It just means he paid the money stated on the notice, and that's the end of the issue. Same as a guilty plea, but no trial or trial proceeding.


So, if we had him sign an affidavit asking if he had ever been convicted of a crime, and he responded "No," does this mean that he was wrong/lying?

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
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Jun 2002
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  Old Post 04-06-2005 03:56
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Is a traffic violation a crime?

I've had several and I still check no.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 03:59
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Traffic violations aren't the same as a misdemeanor, which is considered a crime. I'm just wondering if this is considered an official criminal conviction, since it is a misdemeanor charge.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
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  Old Post 04-06-2005 04:00
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If I was his lawyer suing you over some sort of non-hire or wrongful termination claim, I would argue that it was an "innocent misunderstanding" of the term convicted, or (if it was a bit older) that "he believed in good faith, though erroneously, that his record had been expunged and that he was therefore entitled to honestly answer "no." (some states do this on completion of probation, or the perp can file a motion with the courts to have a misdemeanor record expunged.)

If he was asked this question at deposition or at trial, I'd object it was asking for a legal conclusion from a lay witness.

Technically, it's the same effect as if he was convicted, so he's wrong, however, he may not understand that and might have a good faith belief. Or he could just be dumb and devious and figure you wouldn't know.

It's just semantically different enough from a trial and conviction, and if this is all you've got on his record, his lack of experience with the legal system may mean that he just really doesn't know.

He may also not recall that it's a misdemeanor, so if you mean to see if he's actually lying or not from an HR perspective, it's impossible to tell unless you question him directly about the incident, which can potentially get you into no-nos in some states.

Flubber is offline Flubber
Emperor
With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 04:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Japher
Is a traffic violation a crime?

I've had several and I still check no.


In Canada, MOst traffic violations are not crimes and you get your tickey under a Highway Traffic Act. Some traffic violations are crimes such as driving while impaired.

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
King
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Feb 1999
time: 21:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 04:04
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Traffic violations are infractions not misdemeanors.

Upon further reflection, I agree with MtG. With something small, you pay "bail" before trial, which is the equivalent of a fine & then don't show up.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
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  Old Post 04-06-2005 04:05
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Personally, if all his "record" involved was having a bong or a pipe (keep in mind, you're in Oregon ), and he was squared away in every other respect and had good references, I'd be inclined to let it slide on the grounds the guy may genuinely not know, and it's a chickenshit misdemeanor, not something like petty theft.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 04:12 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 04:13
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Personally, if all his "record" involved was having a bong or a pipe (keep in mind, you're in Oregon ), and he was squared away in every other respect and had good references, I'd be inclined to let it slide on the grounds the guy may genuinely not know, and it's a chickenshit misdemeanor, not something like petty theft.


The problem is that I'm up against a rather strident corporate policy, and the position he'll be working is one of high liability (driving a company vehicle).

On top of that, he has a DUI and reckless driving charge that was dismissed because of a diversionary program...

EDIT: But, he did disclose the other charges to us beforehand and gave me a letter from his lawyer explaining the dismissals via the diversionary program.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 04:16
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MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 04:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov


The problem is that I'm up against a rather strident corporate policy, and the position he'll be working is one of high liability (driving a company vehicle).

On top of that, he has a DUI and reckless driving charge that was dismissed because of a diversionary program...

EDIT: But, he did disclose the other charges to us beforehand and gave me a letter from his lawyer explaining the dismissals via the diversionary program.


Is the paraphernalia charge more recent or older than the traffic charge?

How old is the DUI/reckless, and do you have any info on his blood alcohol?

I'm all in favor of giving people the benefit of the doubt, but this guy is extremely marginal for driving a company vehicle.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
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Feb 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 04:27
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
I'm all in favor of giving people the benefit of the doubt


You must be a crappy moderator then

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 04:27 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Yeah.

DUI for a driving job is a bit much.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 04:29
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The Reckless Driving charge was 10/2003 (the DUI isn't even on the background report, that has been expunged already). This charge is due to be expunged in 11 days.

I'd love to give him the benefit of the doubt, but my misgivings are quite strong.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
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  Old Post 04-06-2005 04:31 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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#21 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

Nobody else applied for the job?

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 04:37
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Nobody else applied for the job?


Well, we had a small pool of candidates for it, conducted interviews, and he was selected for it. But it's always pending the background check coming back okay. If I nix him, I have to go back and start the background check process all over for another candidate, which takes 3-5 days. And this position is supposed to start Monday.

So, would you want this man handing out free ice cream to people?

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 05:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker


You must be a crappy moderator then


The other half of that is the principle: "When in doubt, wipe 'em out."

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 05:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
The Reckless Driving charge was 10/2003 (the DUI isn't even on the background report, that has been expunged already). This charge is due to be expunged in 11 days.

I'd love to give him the benefit of the doubt, but my misgivings are quite strong.


So the reckless and the DUI were two separate charges? and a paraphernalia charge to boot?

**** him, then. - I'm not sure you guys could insure him under a commercial vehicle policy - IIRC, at least with some companies, they see the full view record, i.e. convictions and any expungements.

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:36
  Old Post 04-06-2005 06:29
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Well technically I don't know if it's a crime, I mean in here misdemeanor = rike. Felony = rikos. Rikos = Crime, where as rike != crime.

So in some logics, it could be interpreted as not lying, even though it means some foreigner is interpreting it, based on straight translation of his own perverted language .

If it was me, I'd just straight ask what the parephenilia was. If he says bong, I'd say well, if you are going to smoke weed, you won't get this job. Then see how he reacts ro something. Is he sincere or not, or is he trying to play you. If he says crack pipe, forget about it...

But basically it could mean he just drove like **** one day, plus he has sometimes smoked a bit pot in his own time, and got caught with a pipe or something, and that's it. The crime of his life. Then again, it might be the top of the mountain and in fact he was driving under the influence of crack cocaine and is an addict, criminal, and not to be trusted with a vehicle. Who knows.. don't take any risks but if you can, hear him out..

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