06-06-2005 05:04									#1
	I'm thinking of starting a tech help buisness.... need some advice/legal info! Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I am working a summer job in an electronic store that I absolutely HATE... job pays well($10.00 an hour) but I can not STAND the work. Every day I give serious thought to quiting. They gave me about twice as many hours as I wanted and will not reduce them. The company I work for could not POSSIBLY be sleazier. Our store is also devoid of customers because our prices SUCK horribly.

I spend about half my time giving people free tech support for their computer troubles because I am bored and I am praying it might get us some return business.

It occurred to me.... I could do this.... ON MY OWN. We do hardware installation and virus/spyware removal in the store and I can not believe people pay good money to do the stuff we do for them. I do not have this job though, I have a crappy sales job in the same store.

We charge WAY too much for our services and I could do any of them, hardware installation, virus/bug removal, in home wireless networking..... I could do it all.

After giving someone an hour of free tech support today, then after they asked, telling how much we charge for network installation(which is about $300-NOT include parts!), they wanted to hire ME to do it. It was obvious to them I was up to the task.... I am not particularly afraid they are going to lock my corpse in their basement, it was a family, a husband and wife and their two kids(around 10 maybe). We did not talk about money yet though we exchanged phone numbers, I figured I could charge them $50 for the base, plus $10 for every hour after the first... should not take more then an hour. They already have the hardware(I sold it to them).


Ethically I have no qualms.... my employer is a fraudulent *expletive* who wants us to defraud the public.

I read the employee contract carefully when I was hired and there is nothing against this, as long as I do not solicit it-THEY asked me. I am not violating any laws. HOWEVER I would not do it while employed.... too dangerous.

#### corporate America(especially my dishonest employer!) I would probably make a little less money over the course of the summer but this is a job I would ENJOY, as opposed to one I hate. I am confident enough that I could guarantee my work, no payment unless it works perfectly.

So why not quit my job and try to do this for the rest of the summer? My one concern is who I meet.... I am 20 and I met these people, these are not the "lock me in their basement" type.

My slight fear is that someone who might hire me, may be the "kill me and store my corpse in their basement" type, like most people, I do not frequently enter strangers houses. I was thinking of putting an ad in a local small newspaper......

Any ideas how to SAFELY advertise, or how to screen my prospective customers?


ALSO, what do I have to worry about, legally? I want to, if reasonably possible, do everything legally. Do I need to file for business ownership if I do this?

ALSO I won't do any hardware installations besides networking unless I can get some sort of liability waver.... how much do you think a lawyer might charge for a standard boiler plate?

I am in New York(not the city) if anyone can think of anything else.

What do you all think? Any ideas?

I know I can do this, I know I can make about as much money as I make now, possibly much more and most importantly I would not be doing a job I HATE for a dishonest employer.

Last edited by Vesayen on 07-06-2005 at 07:42

	06-06-2005 05:18									#2
	Suffering from ads?

It's extremely hairy to immediately go into competition with your previous employer. As an employee, you have a duty of loyalty to your employer, which means while you're employed, you can do nothing to "steal" the customers away -- expecially making -- or worse, copying -- customer lists or price lists.

Even if you go into business "clean" and have only customers you legitimately advertise for or in other ways find, you previous employer might sue you, falsely claiming you solicited them while you worked for him.

	06-06-2005 05:19									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I have never solicated to anyone though....... I've only worked there for a few weeks.

I would do in home tech support, the store does in store tech support.... not in home. They DO do in home networking.... technically, no one ever pays for it because as I said, our prices are insane.

Do you really think they'd go after some 20 year old employee who worked there for a few weeks then quit?

	06-06-2005 05:26									#4
	Suffering from ads?

Am I the only finding the thread title somewhat ironic?



I'm thinking of starting a tech help bussiness for bussiness's starting up a tech help bussiness.

	06-06-2005 05:32									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It's a good argument if you do only home stuff and the store doesn't.

It's conceivable they might go after a 20-year-old ex employee (in violation of the unwritten rule to never-ever sue poor people because they have no money) if they see you as a threat to their business.

BTW: did you ever think of changing jobs to work for a firm that is honest?

	06-06-2005 05:40									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I won't work on Saturday due to religious reasons, which makes it damn hard to get a retail(i.e. seasonal) job.

	06-06-2005 05:59									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

If youre going on housecalls its a good idea to let someone know where youre going and perhaps get them to call you at a certain time, 1) makes you look busy (tell the customers you wont charge them for the time of the call), 2) checks youre not getting bdsm ass-raped.

I went on a few housecalls and delivering/setting up built PC's, my boss wanted me to get a mobile but i didnt want to get called for work on weekends, i ended up leaving anyway because they were thieves and he was a dick too.

	06-06-2005 09:34									#8
	Re: I'm thinking of starting a tech help buisness.... need some advice/legal info! Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Vesayen Any ideas how to SAFELY advertise, or how to screen my prospective customers?

Select an area that you think is safe, and send out flyers. You can even go stuff the mailboxes yourself.

Word-of-mouth is, of course, the best. Do a good job and more people will seek you out.

If you are afraid that somebody may kill you bring along a friend whenever you go to a new client's place. Buy him lunch or something. It would be even better if he knows this tech stuff and can help you out.

quote: Originally posted by Vesayen ALSO, what do I have to worry about, legally? I want to, if reasonably possible, do everything legally.

The biggest thing is when you foobared and your client wants to sue your arse off. So you need an indemnification form, which should be quite bog standard.

quote: Originally posted by Vesayen What do you all think? Any ideas?

You need to look pro. That means you need tools and devices. If you do network installation you need clampers, cable tester, multimeter, a box of cables, plastic strip ties, RJ-45 heads, network cards, etc., etc. If you do virus and spyware removal you need to have a CD with the software tools.

You can use some business cards. A mobile phone is essential.

	06-06-2005 12:00									#9
	Got spare money?

I have a job that includes, among other duties, troubleshooting & setting up computers 7 the occasional home or small office network. My boss charges $100/hr for my services. Clients have approached me asking if I would do side jobs, which I occasionally do for $65/hr. (I work in a wealthy area.)

Word of mouth is a good way to get further business. If you are willing to go to people's homes and charge less, you'll do pretty well. You'll do much better than $10/hr.

Don't worry too much about serial killers. If you're ever nervous, fake a phone call to "HQ" saying where you are. Most murderers won't take the risk with workers like that. Aside from that, carry a knife.

You should have access to supplies, and a small stockpile of stuff is useful. Have a credit card for purchases for a given job, don't expect clients to pay in advance.

Don't be afraid to back away from something over your head. Know your limitations.

Too high and tired for more. Good luck.

	06-06-2005 12:06									#10
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I think it helps to charge a fixed lump sum for an entire job instead on an hourly basis. This way a client can gauge easier if he can afford it.

Oh, and sign everything in writing before you begin.

	06-06-2005 17:37									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I still find it best to charge per hour, then modify the total amount downward if you feel you have to. It sucks to charge, say, $300 for a network job that turns into a 2 day nightmare for some reason. But, to each his own.

	06-06-2005 23:12									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Stuffing mailboxes is a good idea..... I am in a very low crime area, I mean REALLY low. 5 miles in any direction is not as good but I don't think there has ever been a murder in my town in 20 years, i've never heard of any violent crime of any sort besides stupid high schoolers commiting rape.... so if the only way is stuffing mailboxes....... should be good. I don't have any friends that would be any help and I really don't want to pay any to come with me to stand there lol.

Anyone have any advice on how to cover my ass from liability of breaking something-or my customer thinking I broke something was already broken? Where/how do I get an indemnification form?

I don't have to file anything with the goverment for running a small buisness like this do I? It is temporary and the income will keep me in the lowest tax bracket I am sure.

Last edited by Vesayen on 07-06-2005 at 00:02

	07-06-2005 00:00									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The only real way to minimize liability is to set up a small business and get insurance. Without that, it's up to skill and luck to keep you safe.

Cash transactions can often go unreported, but you may want to claim some to keep the IRS happy. It can remain unclaimed unless your earnings exceed (I think) $650, which is an easy threshhold to cross. Since I have a small business I set up a few years back, my above-the-table personal business is fully declared (some of it is under-the-table, though, and then there are tips.) Nice things about setting up small biz - low costs ($35 or so to apply for biz license), deductibles (gas, equipment, expenses); bad - pay double FICA at tax time (but it's pretty low), no taxes deducted from earnings, so you have to pay quarterlies, or all at once at tax time.

I don't know the particulars of just doing it yourself, without a business, in terms of taxes and whatnot. But starting small biz ain't bad or hard, and you have up to 5 years to turn a profit (more in than out.)

	07-06-2005 07:35									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

650 in how long?

	07-06-2005 07:39									#15
	Suffering from ads?

quote: there is nothing against this

Yes there is. You used company time to make a business contact for yourself.

You would almost certainly be terminated for this. It's unlikely that the store would take any further action against you, but they might be legally entitled to do so.

BTW, have you ever told anybody on this board your real name or what company you work at?

	07-06-2005 07:41									#16
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Neither, lol. I meant there is nothing against quitting my job and doing this... I am not going to do work for people while I am employed.

	07-06-2005 07:49									#17
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Again, the chances of anybody coming after you for this are remote.

It's difficult for an employer to prove that you used company time for a personal business.

For instance, if you were an executive at an ad firm who decided to quit his job and start his own company you would legally be allowed to contact all your old accounts after quitting and try to convince them to switch companies. You could not, however, get their contact information by writing down their names and numbers on company time and then using this list. What you are legally allowed to do is to go home after work hours and write the numbers out from memory.

The likelihood that the company would be able to prove you had written down the numbers at work would be remote, unless there was some sort of electronic record (email to yourself or contacts copied onto floppy, etc.).

Unless you had a no competition clause in your contract you'd be fine (not to say that the company wouldn't try to harass or intimidate you through legal action).

	07-06-2005 07:50									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

What is a no competition clause?

	07-06-2005 07:51									#19
	Inflate your Upload Space

My advice to you would be to just go ahead and do this work for the people and not say a word about it to anybody working at the store. Also make sure that the people understand you don't want it getting back to your boss.

I am doubtful that you could get enough business before the summer is over to equal the earnings you will get from a steady job. A good time to start building the business would be during the school year (when you don't want too much work anyway).

	07-06-2005 07:58									#20
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Vesayen What is a no competition clause?

Saying that you won't work for the competition (or start your own competing business) within X months/years of leaving the company.

Most employees do not have to sign such a contract. Only people in certain fields will encounter one.

My father was working for a company on commission a few years ago (they were apparently total douchebags who didn't actually fulfill the contracts they received etc). After a while, one of the employees left to start his own company doing the exact same thing. The next week my father's boss came to him and asked him to sign a no competition clause. Needless to say, my father said "I'll think about it", and as soon as he had received the commissions he was owed he jumped ships and bought in as half owner of the new company.

He might have pulled some shady **** (I have no clue, and don't want to know) with client lists etc., but given the sleaziness of the old company (and the fact that he could probably have made a good case to the police against his old boss for fraud if he wanted to) the chances of the old company coming after him were remote (the old company is now out of business, and apparently left both employees and customers high and dry, while his old boss made out like a bandit).

	07-06-2005 08:10									#21
	Support Apolyton

I read my employee contract carefully... when I was in highschool I had a temporary cashiering job where the company claimed right to ALL PATENTS you had during your employment and for 24 months after....... there is no competition clause. I don't need/want my companies info to find customers.

	07-06-2005 10:15									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Vesayen I read my employee contract carefully... when I was in highschool I had a temporary cashiering job where the company claimed right to ALL PATENTS you had during your employment and for 24 months after....... there is no competition clause. I don't need/want my companies info to find customers.

Looks to me like you're golden

	07-06-2005 19:28									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Or slight orange, lol.

	08-06-2005 10:15									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Vesayen Anyone have any advice on how to cover my ass from liability of breaking something-or my customer thinking I broke something was already broken? Where/how do I get an indemnification form?

Check on the Web to see if you find anything suitable. Maybe ask a lawyer to look it over for you once you start doing jobs that may break things. Right now, running cables and clamping on jacks won't destroy any of your clients' stuff. Running scanners on computers, now there's a risk involved. Suppose the client has got some files deleted by malware, and then you come in to do the cleaning. You could get blamed for that.