08-06-2005 02:29									#1
	Whither Spain? Problems and Solutions Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

1628. Escorial Palace Madrid. Circular from Don Jorge, Don de la Frontera. Comments appreciated.


Problem: Inflation 60% a year.
Solution: Fund governors as priority. Also no urgency to recapturing Potosi (which recently rebelled - our troops were busy handling other rebellions in South America, and it went to the Incas before we could siege it). Limit minting.
Problem: Military tech lag - we are two techs behind the leading tech in both land and naval tech.
Solution: Direct all tech spending to military. Minimal spending on stability, limit minting.
Problem:Extensive pagan populations in new world, which limits funds (due to off religion and off culture) heightened revolt risk, and increased stability costs
Solution: Send missionaries as funds allow - but keep priorities on governors (lower inflation will mean lower conversion costs)
Problem: Austria. Now the largest rival power, controls all Germany except the far north, only real threat to Spanish power.
Potential Solution: Preemptive war
Potential Solution: Maintain current alliance system. France is diplomatically isolated, Britain has only a handful of small weak Protestant states. The alliance of Spain, Portugal, Papal States and Austria assures our security. Meanwhile Austria is hobbled by revolts, its many Reform and Protestant provinces. DO improve our military position meanwhile (see above - on military tech)
Problem: lack of financial resources. Not enough money to research, build governors, convert provinces, colonize, build troops, extend diplo offers, etc.
Solution: Iron discipline. For the time being : Keep research to military only, as above. No more colonization except on Caribbean Islands. No new ships. No new troops except infantry, and that very selectively. Keep missionaries to no more than one every three years or so. Focus on Governors.
Problem: DP sliders. Midway on Centralization. Slightly to the left on Aristocracy. All the way to Narrowmindedness.
Solution: Focus on shift to Plutocracy.

	08-06-2005 08:00									#2
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Plutocracy will impact on your diplomatic offers. Centralization would be a better choice as it would improve both your research and your income.

	08-06-2005 14:13									#3
	Re: Whither Spain? Problems and Solutions Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Problem: Inflation 60% a year. Solution: Fund governors as priority. Also no urgency to recapturing Potosi (which recently rebelled - our troops were busy handling other rebellions in South America, and it went to the Incas before we could siege it). Limit minting.

Yes, you need governors ASAP. Once you have enough in place you can afford limited minting as long as the overall effect is to reduce inflation.

quote: Problem: Military tech lag - we are two techs behind the leading tech in both land and naval tech. Solution: Direct all tech spending to military. Minimal spending on stability, limit minting.

So you are a bit behind on military tech. So what? What matters in the long term is trade and infra. It's better to push trade and infra to at least level 6 each and just trail the land and naval tech leaders for now. You need a stronger economy to increase your income to be able to afford missionaries and governors

quote: Problem:Extensive pagan populations in new world, which limits funds (due to off religion and off culture) heightened revolt risk, and increased stability costs Solution: Send missionaries as funds allow - but keep priorities on governors (lower inflation will mean lower conversion costs)

Yes, you need to convert pagans. You should not be getting significant RR unless you have low stability or you promoted tax colectors in pagan provinces, better to convert before promoting.

quote: Problem: Austria. Now the largest rival power, controls all Germany except the far north, only real threat to Spanish power. Potential Solution: Preemptive war Potential Solution: Maintain current alliance system. France is diplomatically isolated, Britain has only a handful of small weak Protestant states. The alliance of Spain, Portugal, Papal States and Austria assures our security. Meanwhile Austria is hobbled by revolts, its many Reform and Protestant provinces. DO improve our military position meanwhile (see above - on military tech)

You don't need a major war, you need to consolidate right now. there are still almost 200 years left in the game. Keep up the present alliance and you should be secure. Don't let it lapse so if there isn't a war going on then declare one yourself against some isolated pagan (don't call on your alliance partners!) and let it fade into a white peace. Portugal usually wars with Zimbabwe often enough anyway. If you keep your troop levels to around 90% on the support limit I find the AI rarely attacks if you have a large empire.

quote: Problem: lack of financial resources. Not enough money to research, build governors, convert provinces, colonize, build troops, extend diplo offers, etc. Solution: Iron discipline. For the time being : Keep research to military only, as above. No more colonization except on Caribbean Islands. No new ships. No new troops except infantry, and that very selectively. Keep missionaries to no more than one every three years or so. Focus on Governors.

Research trade and infra. Place merchants, especially monopolise overseas CoT's. Develop only high value colonies.

quote: Problem: DP sliders. Midway on Centralization. Slightly to the left on Aristocracy. All the way to Narrowmindedness. Solution: Focus on shift to Plutocracy.

You should centralise a bit to accelerate research but not too much to increase stab costs significantly. Where is your land/naval slider? You should be full naval to maximise the income from your overseas provinces and go quality and offensive to improve your armies. Leave aristocracy and serfdom about in the middle. You can afford to be fairly mercantile as you can't afford a lot of merchants or colonists anyway so leave that one alone for now.

If I were trying to get to where you want to go I wouldn't start from where you are now. Since you don't have any choice on that, I wish you luck.

	08-06-2005 21:37									#4
	Re: Re: Whither Spain? Problems and Solutions Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

[QUOTE] Originally posted by CerberusIV
thanks for your advice.

quote: Yes, you need governors ASAP. Once you have enough in place you can afford limited minting as long as the overall effect is to reduce inflation.

The council of finance reports that we have enough in place now to reduce infl a little bit, while minting a little bit. But thats only with Potosi gone. Id like to get infl (now at 61%) down below 60%, and mint more. And eventually retake Potosi.

quote: So you are a bit behind on military tech. So what?

The king is nervous, what with big French armies running around, and Austria, with all that white on the map. And England is now 3 naval techs ahead.

quote: What matters in the long term is trade and infra. It's better to push trade and infra to at least level 6 each and just trail the land and naval tech leaders for now. You need a stronger economy to increase your income to be able to afford missionaries and governors

[out of character] infra 6 is the first one past governors, right? I just got that. Im behind on trade tech though.

quote: Yes, you need to convert pagans. You should not be getting significant RR unless you have low stability or you promoted tax colectors in pagan provinces, better to convert before promoting.

[ooc]Well we had a convert first or promote first discussion a while back, and i got mixed messages, so I guess Ive been inconsistent. In any case the revolts really get bad when WE is a contributiing factor. Ive had several wars from 1605 to 1625 or so, so its mattered.

quote: You don't need a major war, you need to consolidate right now. there are still almost 200 years left in the game. Keep up the present alliance and you should be secure.

Thats essentially what i thought, but wanted to check.

quote: Don't let it lapse so if there isn't a war going on then declare one yourself against some isolated pagan (don't call on your alliance partners!) and let it fade into a white peace. Portugal usually wars with Zimbabwe often enough anyway. If you keep your troop levels to around 90% on the support limit I find the AI rarely attacks if you have a large empire.

[ooc]Well im still a bit below that I think, but ive been steadily building more troops.

quote: Research trade and infra. Place merchants, especially monopolise overseas CoT's.

[ooc]only not particularly competitive overseas COT ive seen is one in West Africa, where ive sent some merchants. Zacatecas is harder to get into than I would have thought. Should I trade embargo the native American nations? Advantages. disadvantages?

Develop only high value colonies.

quote: You should centralise a bit to accelerate research but not too much to increase stab costs significantly.

[ooc]I had trouble keeping centralization up earlier, and thats why lately ive focused on plutocracy.

quote: Where is your land/naval slider? You should be full naval to maximise the income from your overseas provinces

Im too nervous to do that. See above.

quote: and go quality and offensive to improve your armies. Leave aristocracy and serfdom about in the middle. You can afford to be fairly mercantile as you can't afford a lot of merchants or colonists anyway so leave that one alone for now. If I were trying to get to where you want to go I wouldn't start from where you are now. Since you don't have any choice on that, I wish you luck.

We have been making steady improvements and rationalizations since my great-grandfather became regent in 1534, and especially since he shifted his attention away from the Inca wars in the 1560's. My family has gradually reshaped the strategic culture of the Spanish court, making it more pragmatic, more focused on Spanish national interests, and more rational, even as we continue to pursue the glory of the holy Catholic Church.


[ooc] well this is my first game, and when i started it I had little idea what I was doing. OTOH from an RP pov it almost makes more sense than having everything optimized from the beginning. And more fun too.

BTW, did you see the earlier "Whither Spain?" thread?

Edited to add in character flavor.

	08-06-2005 21:38									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Qilue Plutocracy will impact on your diplomatic offers. Centralization would be a better choice as it would improve both your research and your income.

Isnt it very hard to keep centralization high? Esp now that ive got a big empire, and lots of pagan provinces, those stab hits are pretty costly.

	08-06-2005 22:32									#6
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Isnt it very hard to keep centralization high? Esp now that ive got a big empire, and lots of pagan provinces, those stab hits are pretty costly.

Hard yes, but very much worth the bonuses. You should be large enough to be able to avoid any DoWs on you so take the time to clean up your empire. Make conversion of those pagan provinces as an imediate priority after upgrading all your mayors. Don't worry about non-pagan provinces.

This way, if you have all the pagans converted, any Conversion of Heretics event will go on a non-pagan province. With your narrow-minded setting as it is, you have a higher chance of getting these events. I assume you know that if converted manually, a pagan province changes to your culture, but if they are converted by an event, they retain their culture?

Basically-
Good - Conversion event on non-pagans
Bad - Conversion event on pagans

	08-06-2005 23:24									#7
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Related question: what do you guys mean when you refer to 'minting' in game?

	08-06-2005 23:31									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The treasury slider. Minting is where you have that fully to the right so that your entire budget is added to Treasury.

	09-06-2005 00:06									#9
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Figured as much, thank you.

	09-06-2005 04:40									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Qilue Hard yes, but very much worth the bonuses. You should be large enough to be able to avoid any DoWs on you so take the time to clean up your empire. Make conversion of those pagan provinces as an imediate priority after upgrading all your mayors. Don't worry about non-pagan provinces. This way, if you have all the pagans converted, any Conversion of Heretics event will go on a non-pagan province. With your narrow-minded setting as it is, you have a higher chance of getting these events. I assume you know that if converted manually, a pagan province changes to your culture, but if they are converted by an event, they retain their culture? Basically- Good - Conversion event on non-pagans Bad - Conversion event on pagans

yes that happened to me once this game, and now i have province full of Catholic Cherokee.

as for the DP change - right now im 3 years from the next shot. I will still have plenty of pagan provinces and thus high stab cost then. So Im still thinking a move toward plutocracy, rather than centralization, at that point would be good.

	09-06-2005 16:10									#11
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Centralization is one of the few sliders where the benefits vastly outweight the costs. Just about every state, even multicultural, multireligious ones, should try to maximize on centralization. Since you're fully narrow-minded, stability costs shouldn't be that much of a problem. And staying somewhat aristocratic will help when you want to annex i.e. Portugal.

	09-06-2005 16:22									#12
	Re: Re: Re: Whither Spain? Problems and Solutions Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark The king is nervous, what with big French armies running around, and Austria, with all that white on the map. And England is now 3 naval techs ahead.

As long as you are no more than one CRT level (land 9, 14, 26, etc) behind it should not be a problem.

quote: only not particularly competitive overseas COT ive seen is one in West Africa, where ive sent some merchants. Zacatecas is harder to get into than I would have thought. Should I trade embargo the native American nations? Advantages. disadvantages?

No, I mean the new CoT's that will spring up from the mid 1600's onwards. If you are lucky you may get one on a Caribbean island or in Aires. If your relations with Portugal are good, you should be able to trade into any colonial CoT's on their territory. The AI is slow to exploit these so place one merchant per month until you have a monopoly there. Eventually they will compete you out of the monopoly or the CoT will disappear. Let it, another one will be along shortly.

Zacatecas is a pain. All the North American tribes trade there because it is the only one they know of. If you embargo them it reduces your trade efficiency and costs you income elsewhere, not to mention more of your merchants being competed out. Once you have consolidated your present empire consider going and annexing some of them to reduce the competition in Zacetas.

Going full Naval is vital for a colonial power. It is the only slider that reduces the overseas tax penalty and the only one that improves naval morale (one reason the English were beating you at sea). It does reduce production efficiency but you can compensate with other sliders and it is the easiest way to increase trade efficiency.

Stay away from plutocratic. You need some bourgoisie to fill the lower ranks of the civil service and to carry out the instructions of their betters but power should rest in the hands of those with the breeding to use it properly. [/in character mode]

	09-06-2005 21:26									#13
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well, i was persuaded enough, when 1633 rolled around I went a step toward centralization instead of plutocracy.

Fortunately France and England are at war, so Im not too worried (and Austria has most of its troops on the nothern frontier)

Its 1634 - ive got about 10 years till i get the new trade tech - level 5. At that point I will take a look at where everyone else is in military techs. I will also have to determine if my need for tech warrants another step toward centralization, or if I should go toward naval.

	10-06-2005 05:01									#14
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I've stopped going full-plutocracy in my games. Unless your country has a slew of good diplomats, the diplomatic bonus of aristocracy is a serious boon to your performance. I know that my Britanny couldn't live without a good diplomacy (how else would France agree to ally with such a rich yet undefended country?)

	10-06-2005 08:50									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I've stopped going full-plutocracy in my games. Unless your country has a slew of good diplomats, the diplomatic bonus of aristocracy is a serious boon to your performance. I know that my Britanny couldn't live without a good diplomacy (how else would France agree to ally with such a rich yet undefended country?)

Spain never seems to have a shortage of diplos. Increased costs for diplo actions would hurt a bit, but not that much, as i seldom find myself doing a lot. Between promotions, missions, colonies, theres an endless number of things to spend money on. And i have little trouble getting allies.

	12-06-2005 23:49									#16
	Inflate your Upload Space

BTW, have you looked over this thread on the Paradox forums? Basically it describes how various DP settings can affect random events.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...ad.php?t=114765

	13-06-2005 21:09									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Qilue BTW, have you looked over this thread on the Paradox forums? Basically it describes how various DP settings can affect random events. http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...ad.php?t=114765

ive read it, but theres way too much to in those Faqs to remember it all.

Meanwhile its going better.

I survived the 1640 revolts and a couple of random revolt events. Austria, alliance leader in the war with England, signed a peace that gave me Delaware, Powhatan (a TP) and Connecticut - all of which I wanted. And Gascony, which I didnt particularly want, but I'll make the best of it Delaware has a COT which is nice. Ive already (by 1649) established a monopoly there. Very lucrative.

And Susqehanna, an English prov held by rebels, joined my empire.

In 1643, I moved one step over to Naval.

Then in 1648, I got the Netherlands Restitution event. Not sure what the triggers are, but its certainly very helpful to me now. It moved centralization up 3 steps, to 9, which would have taken me 30 years. It moved Stab up from +1 to +3. Event related revolt risk in my 4 "Belgian" provinces disappeared, and Flanders converted to Catholic (leaving me with only one off religion province in Europe - Bearn). Plus 300 ducats.

Just after that I got a random good govt event - another 500 ducats. So even after another couple of governors, and another couple of colonists, and some more troops, im still fairly swimming in Ducats, relative to the way things have been.

Oh, and inflation is down from its peak of 61% to 60.1% and still dropping.

As soon as I retake Arequippa from the rebels, I'll send a missionary there.

	14-06-2005 07:20									#18
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ok back to dp sliders.

its 1651. I had a nobles demand old rights event, and took the hit to centralization, so im back at 8 centralization. Im one step toward plutocracy, so thats 4, one step toward naval, so 4. I think im at 6 offensive, 5 on qual and serfdom, and all the way at mercantilism, and narrowminded.

So when I get another chance, in 1653, what should I do? Push ahead on centralization again? Or another step toward naval?

	14-06-2005 15:48									#19
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The Netherlands event is purely time related, it fires during 1648 (I've just had the equivalent event in my current Austria game).

Centralisation 8 is high enough but if it is dropped any lower by events you should try and push it up again. I'd go more naval right now.