10-06-2005 05:55									#1
	what makes a story tragic to you? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I don't mean in the sense of a classical tragedy, but what sort of story do you find really heart-wrenching?

I think I'm kind of twisted in this, as people dying doesn't really make a story tragic to me (in general; there are a few exceptions to this rule). Rather, the stories that are really painful to me are those in which some piece of information is lost, forever, even if this isn't the focus of the author. For example, the song "Cats in the Cradle" always makes me cry, because the father ends up never being able to actually know his son. This song is supposed to be sad. OTOH, there's Card's novel Pastwatch,

spoiler(highlight to read): which is supposed to have a relatively happy ending, but I always feel horrible that almost all of human history is erased and will never be known - in fact, that two human histories are lost.

1984 was most horrifying to me because of the way that history was systematically eliminated.

I think part of the reason is because, to my mind, humans are impermanent beings that will die anyway and can (and will) be replaced, but information is immortal and its destruction permanent.

	10-06-2005 06:30									#2
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For me: When kind people are destroyed because of their kindness.

	10-06-2005 06:33									#3
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The big, loud minor chords that crash at the end, of course. How else would you know it's tragic?

	10-06-2005 06:46									#4
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Being badly told.

	10-06-2005 07:17									#5
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minor chords are NOT sad sounding. they evoke emotion, but not sadness.

	10-06-2005 07:23									#6
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minor 7th chords are probably the best, followed closely by major 7ths.

	10-06-2005 16:07									#7
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: tongue :

	10-06-2005 16:15									#8
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"what makes a story tragic to you?"

When the last page of the book is missing.

	10-06-2005 16:23									#9
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when a guy uglier then me gets the girl ...but in general when some one accepts death or some big respossiblity...the only one i can think of now is a book called: 'planetbuilder'...

spoiler(highlight to read): were a guy that has all the ability to take on the leadership of a stranded group of people on a alien planet doesnt want to at first but eventually has to because of the stupid things other people do

i am a sucker for problems that are out of your hands stories

	10-06-2005 16:30									#10
	Re: what makes a story tragic to you? Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker I don't mean in the sense of a classical tragedy, but what sort of story do you find really heart-wrenching? I think I'm kind of twisted in this, as people dying doesn't really make a story tragic to me (in general; there are a few exceptions to this rule). Rather, the stories that are really painful to me are those in which some piece of information is lost, forever, even if this isn't the focus of the author. For example, the song "Cats in the Cradle" always makes me cry, because the father ends up never being able to actually know his son. This song is supposed to be sad. OTOH, there's Card's novel Pastwatch, spoiler(highlight to read): which is supposed to have a relatively happy ending, but I always feel horrible that almost all of human history is erased and will never be known - in fact, that two human histories are lost. 1984 was most horrifying to me because of the way that history was systematically eliminated. I think part of the reason is because, to my mind, humans are impermanent beings that will die anyway and can (and will) be replaced, but information is immortal and its destruction permanent.

All information will eventually be destroyed.

	10-06-2005 16:33									#11
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information is just ordered chaos...

	10-06-2005 19:51									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia minor chords are NOT sad sounding. they evoke emotion, but not sadness.

The minor keys are used to denote "sadness" or "darkness" or "tragedy" about 99% of the time. Minor 7ths aren't the issue, as they are transitory chords, not final ones. Not many pieces that I know of end on a minor 7th chord, as it would leave an enormous sense of non-resolution.

But when you end on a minor triad, the overall impression is bound to be "dark," as opposed to ending on a major triad.

	10-06-2005 20:17									#13
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Kids & animals.

	10-06-2005 20:19									#14
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It's not just minor chords, but the violins playing long, drawn out, boring notes that are to say "I'm so meaningful and sad, pity me!"

	11-06-2005 07:18									#15
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Maybe not tragic, but I always am barely able to hold my tears when I see a collective pursuit or suffering. Unity makes me emotional.

	11-06-2005 07:56									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler For me: When kind people are destroyed because of their kindness.

That's a good tragedy.


Innocent people being brutalized.

Or people who try with all their heart and might to change a situation but still never win in the end.

	11-06-2005 09:07									#17
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I thought for you it'd be a chick saying "no"

	11-06-2005 09:52									#18
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That is always a tragedy.

	12-06-2005 02:44									#19
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When a character does all the wrong things for all the right reasons and it ends up destroying him. Londo Mollari from Babylon 5 exemplifies this perfectly. He made a deal with the devil for the good of his people and ended up destroying everything he loved.