10-06-2005 20:38									#1
	Beginning Vox Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

We will open up our forums (I think). No matter how foolish it makes us appear.

Going and reading the early threads, none of us had a clue

Here was my starting idea for the team

==================
I would like to have a small team (not many more than 5)

I think one person should get to play for some amount of time, and post the results of everyturn in the secrent team forum (at elast I think that there are secert team forums), the player could be subject to no confidence votes

everyone who does not play would get +1 vote for who get to be player next time (subject to some limitation), this would insure that everyone gets to play often

in order to keep coninuty going and to give the player the max ammount of choices, the general will of the team would be decided upon at the same time as the player, and as long as confidence in the player continues, nothing is done until the next time things go up for vote (say 10 turns later)

these would just be my ideas for how to do this, I think it would do a lot better than how some demo games I have seen have done

I view it as more of a tag team approach with the added extras of a noconfidence possibility (to keep someone from driving the civ into the ground) and some discussion every certain number of turns on what the goals are

===========

team started as:
Eli
Beta
Wittlich
Dissident
Jon Miller

with flash9286 being the 6th person added

Jon Miller
(sort of surprising how my plan was followed..)

	10-06-2005 21:31									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Shoot, I don't know what posts to post (they all seem really silly).

I think I will let Beta do this.

Jon Miller

	10-06-2005 21:35									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Here... I'll help. I am self-centered, and I like to talk about myself. My team is self-centered. They like to talk about ourselves. People feel good when they are the topic of discussion. Post things that your teammates thought about other teams.

	10-06-2005 21:38									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Yeah

I was thinking that...

BTW, how would we open our forum?

We won't do it yet, as our password is posted.

Jon Miller

	10-06-2005 21:42									#5
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Donegeal Here... I'll help. I am self-centered, and I like to talk about myself. My team is self-centered. They like to talk about ourselves. People feel good when they are the topic of discussion. Post things that your teammates thought about other teams.

OK - sounds good. I will go through the forum and pull out some stuff. But as Jon states, some of it will be embarrasing. As GS found when they took over North Estonia (ie Vox's lands), we really didn't have much of a clue at the start. It was a learning experience for all of us. We either needed a Nathan Barclay or another year of civ3 under our belt.

	10-06-2005 21:44									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

first post mentioning another Civ

quote: Originally posted by Beta Hi Witt - I wish I could say I was being modest ... I didn't have the faintest idea this entire forum was up and running. I thought we only had the one thread. You can tell I'm new ..... beta says sheepishly. Anyways - looks like I get to start anyway by default. It is well past 7 on Sunday. The Roleplayers have been at it for hours now. Not sure what takes hours about the first turn of Civ III ....

quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller they are role players, they will always take a while Jon Miller

most of our early threads are about us (Been looking at the first couple of pages), guess we were self-centered also

JM

	10-06-2005 21:49									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

Embarassing? Did you see that Panzer posted a question as to wether or not we needed map making in order to trade maps? What a n00b!

	10-06-2005 23:34									#8
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Here is the details of the Voxodus, probably the second most important document in Voxian history (behind only the document from Lego allowing us to settle Voxtavia.

quote: Vox Controli-Gathering Storm Peace and Exodus agreement 1. Vox will have up to 18 turns, or until workers and settlers equaling its current population (with settlers counting as two pop points), whichever comes first, to evacuate. During that time, only workers and settlers will be produced unless Gathering Storm grants an exception for some special purpose. 2. When the designated term of evacuation is over, Vox will hand over all of their towns that are left on Estonia to GS. However, if Vox is incapable of loading all of its units on galleys by that time, they may leave units in one tile which will be agreed upon with GS until their galleys return for additional trips, granted that the immortals leave on the first trip. 3. When leaving, Vox promises not to raze any of it's worked tiles or remaining cities. (This includes abandoning cities by building settlers without GS's consent.) Vox also agrees not to sell any city improvements other than barracks and cultural improvements. 4. Vox will not allow any landings of forces other than GS on it's territory during the evacuation period. Any such forces already there will be asked to leave. 5. Vox units will have free passage from S. Estonia to N. Estonia, in order to be disbanded in the cities for faster production. 6. Vox will disband all it's military units, as described in point 5, except : a) 12 defensive units - Pikemen or Spearmen. b) 4 offensive units - Immortals or Warriors. 7. 3 Voxian Catapults will pass to GS. 8. Up to 2 GS War Chariots may patrol Voxian territory during the evacuation. GS and Vox will attempt to minimize interference between GS's patrols and Vox's unit movements. Aside from warriors needed as MPs to address happiness problems, Vox will keep its units outside its cities to avoid ambiguities in verifying numbers and types of troops. 9. Should Vox request GS's aid in the logistical aspect of the evacuation, such aid will be available. If that happens, Vox agrees to provide every detail that is required to create a scenario that is an exact duplication of North Estonia (fully identical, up to the amount of food and shields stored in each city). GS will help Vox come up with a turn-by-turn plan for the most effective and efficient evacuation possible. Should GS come up with a plan to liquify the population of North Estonia up to the point where each remaining city of Vox Controli is down to 1 population point or has been abandoned with a settler before Vox's designated evacuation period is over, Vox will follow that plan and evacuate North Estonia as soon as that plan is completely carried out (that is, sooner than the amount of turns initially agreed upon). 10. The method of evacuation : Vox's population will be transformed into workers. Vox will arrange to be given a town on another continent by a team of their choice, and will then gift their workers to that team, which, according to agreement with Vox, will return these workers to Vox's control. Therefore, galleys will only be necessary for the transportation of military units and there will be need for less galleys for Vox to evacuate themselves than if they evacuated their population via galleys as well. 11. Vox will not use pop rushing in any city without GS's approval. 12. Vox will give Gathering Storm Engineering when research on that is completed. 13. If applicable, Vox will sell or trade its free industrial and modern techs to Gathering Storm on terms at least as favorable as those on which it provides them to any other nation. This includes giving Gathering Storm an equal opportunity to pay with techs or other commodities rather than gold. Commitments required in return for land in your new home will not count in this regard, however. 14. deleted 15. If any former Voxian city transferred to GS attempts to flip back to Vox, Vox will reject the city when asked. Should a mistake be made in handling that, or if some quirk of MP prevents you from having an opportunity to reject the flip, Vox will immediately gift the city back to GS. 16. The city of Dissidentville will be an exception to the 18-turn evacuation period. Vox will either hand over or abandon Dissidentville (in the latter case, probably by disbanding with a settler sped up by disbanding units), at GS's choice, within the next seven turns. Should this provision undercut Vox's ability to evacuate population equivalent to its current population within 18 turns, GS will grant a suitable extension to compensate. 17. It is understood by both sides that the spirit of this agreement that is important, not just its letter. Neither side will attempt to use technicalities to take unfair advantage of the other or to circumvent the intent of the agreement. Final Peace - the 5 points of 90BC 1. Vox 126. Vox gifts all cities on Stormia (Estonia) to GS, save the Voice, as well as Engineering. Accepted. All cities include Wittlich City, Miller Town, Beta-by-the-Sea, and Harry's Hideout. 2. GS 127. GS accepts cities and tech. Declares war, occupies The Voice. GS offers peace, Miller Town and any gold captured from the Voice back, accepted. 3. Vox 127. Vox accepts peace and Miller Town. Moves all forces into Miller Town. Offers Miller Town, unnaccepted. 4. GS 128. GS offers 60 gold and accepts. 5. Vox 128. Vox accepts 60 gold for Miller Town and all forces *blip* to their new capital. The peace is final. Ratified by Gathering Storm Ratified by Vox Controli

	11-06-2005 18:25									#9
	Re: Beginning Vox Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller Going and reading the early threads, none of us had a clue

You were not the only one

I was even arguing with someone at some point in the beginning saying that we shouldn't keep the save several hours only to decide what would be the best to build: a mine or an irrigation! I know it was irritating me that people wanted to plan in detail everything I only wanted to play!

	11-06-2005 18:58									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Should GS come up with a plan to liquify the population of North Estonia

Ethnic Cleansing on Stormia! They should be nuked!

	11-06-2005 18:59									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

That agreement was already obsolete before signing it, which explains the odd addendum. In that, we gave a plan to speed up evacuation, and to avoid that you needed to build galleys (you had one, if I recall).

But it's strange to see you were supposed to give us your free techs... I forgot about that, and you did as well, it seems

DeepO

	11-06-2005 19:01									#12
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Donegeal quote: Should GS come up with a plan to liquify the population of North Estonia Ethnic Cleansing on Stormia! They should be nuked!

liquify, as in the economic sense: to liquify your assets into portable means. For Vox, this meant converting pop into workers which could be zapped to Legos Minor.

DeepO

	11-06-2005 19:09									#13
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by DeepO But it's strange to see you were supposed to give us your free techs... I forgot about that, and you did as well, it seems

"Surprises" buried all over the fora, aren't they?

You'd be laughing seeing me "re-discover" the history of that first unfortunate GS-Lego deal... re-writing my post in the public forum all the time, as new evidence kept "emerging". I had it quite twisted in my memory...

	11-06-2005 19:21									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

I wanted to post here the agreement/treaty we made with Vox during the Stormian war when I discovered in it the following, closing paragraph:

quote: 5. Both parties agree to keep this trade agreement top secret, never revealing any details to a third party.

What shall I do ?

	11-06-2005 19:33									#15
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius What shall I do ?

You should look here.

I think for all practical purposes when it comes to treaties signed in PtWDG, the time now is "past never". A treaty that could not be published now would most probably be a dark secret...

	11-06-2005 19:40									#16
	Get a bigger avatar today!

not that one! This one:

quote: Lego-Vox trade treaty of 630BC 1. Vox agrees to gift Engineering to Lego on the turn it becomes available for Vox. Lego agrees on a 20 turns "no-whoring" clause. 2. Lego agrees to gift Theology to Vox upon request, urging Vox not to request it until they need it for Education, in order to make it difficult for any other team trying to research it on their own. Vox agrees not to build the Sistine Chapel, and to not trade Theology to any team unless that team also agrees not to build the Sistine Chapel as part of the trade. 3. Lego agrees to pay 120 gold to Vox on turn 98 (Vox receives it on turn 99). Vox gifts Lego their WM on turn 99, their WM again when the war with GS is over and war reports and screenshots at least every 3 turns. 4. Lego grants Vox a loan of 120 gold on turn 102 (Vox receives on turn 103). Vox starts repaying it within 20 turns after turn 103, in an amount of 6 gpt, for 20 turns. 5. Both parties agree to keep this trade agreement top secret, never revealing any details to a third party.

Most interesting are point 3 and 4, obviously. You can calculate exactly at what extent we were supporting the Vox war efforts.

	11-06-2005 20:15									#17
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by vondrack You'd be laughing seeing me "re-discover" the history of that first unfortunate GS-Lego deal... re-writing my post in the public forum all the time, as new evidence kept "emerging". I had it quite twisted in my memory...

Huh. I just reread our chat logs from that period, together with what must have been your first post. It sure is different, Vond. I really didn't understand what you were upset about, if you read those logs you see that we tried over and over again to strike a fair deal. And the main reason why we din't want a 3-way deal, is that we felt that Vox was not reliable enough to provide you with their research.

But these were different times. The 10-turn NDA's made a problem as they were too short, while we still figured that one third of the beakercost of a tech would be acceptable as payment. Later on, this changed a lot.

I also reread the chat right after the first turn in the Voxian war (when we got into GA), it's hilarious. Here we are, just talking about trades like it was the only thing in the news, while you guys were showing up with half your team to read more on the progress of the war. We felt it irrelevant

DeepO

	11-06-2005 22:44									#18
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by DeepO That agreement was already obsolete before signing it, which explains the odd addendum. In that, we gave a plan to speed up evacuation, and to avoid that you needed to build galleys (you had one, if I recall). But it's strange to see you were supposed to give us your free techs... I forgot about that, and you did as well, it seems DeepO

We weren't supposed to give you our free tech we were supposed to give you favorable terms.

quote: 13. If applicable, Vox will sell or trade its free industrial and modern techs to Gathering Storm on terms at least as favorable as those on which it provides them to any other nation. This includes giving Gathering Storm an equal opportunity to pay with techs or other commodities rather than gold. Commitments required in return for land in your new home will not count in this regard, however.

For nationalism, our free tech for the industrial age, we gave you a fair deal (though I'd have to check the FA threads to see what it was). For our free modern tech I had tried to browbeat Beta into taking Vox back after Lego lost so I don't know what happened there, but I think GS already had researched our free tech.

	11-06-2005 22:57									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

Wasn't your free tech Fission? If it was, you gave us that...

	11-06-2005 22:59									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Okay so it appears you gave us electricity in exchange for nationalism and a no trade agreement. We were practically trying to give you democracy with it but you never wanted it.

Here is a diplo sequence between Arrian and I that I find humorous. These happened before the trade deal took place.

quote: by Arrian Hey, thanks for the fast reply! Gold and luxuries on demand sound good to me - we can work with that. Get back in touch when you know which tech you got, ok? While we may be interested in demo at some point in the future, we aren't now, sorry. We can't really afford the anarchy, and the benifit would be minimal anyway. Our empire is very small, after all (you know the feeling, I'm sure). -Arrian

And my response...

quote: by Rhoth Vox aims to please. I should be able to get back to you sometime this weekend once we have our turn sorted out. I'll make sure to PM several of your team since I know you don't often log on during the weekend. Regarding democracy, that's too bad but we understand. If you ever do change your mind please keep us in mind. Vox has taken pride in being the "Purveyors of Democracy" to the world. By the way, if you're tired of how small your island is, Vox would be happy to switch with you. Regards, Rhoth

I don't think Arrian ever responded to my last line though.

	11-06-2005 23:02									#21
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Krill Wasn't your free tech Fission? If it was, you gave us that...

Ah you're correct. We received computers in return. Like I said I wasn't doing anything for Vox for a short period of time...trying to avoid it actually.