11-06-2005 00:36									#1
	Reign of Modo Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

[ooc]I wil not be mentally capable of playing this or responding until tomorrow afternoon. Too much work[/ooc]

Comments on suggested city locations are welcome. Comments on city builds as well. I do not want to go to war. I want to make lots of Workers, a new city, and tech parity with neighbours. Talk away.

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	11-06-2005 01:18									#2
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* Kampaku Paddiock Taronga enters Daimyo Modo's Palace

It is good to see you Lord

May your reign be one of enlightenment and prosperity for the peoples of the clan.

	11-06-2005 01:58									#3
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I agree we should keep expanding and go to war after this

I would not build the city near the capital of Osaka - we could take it later. I like the site east of our capital and this would could our neighbours. After this settle the rest of the lands maybe with the purpose to get the insense

	11-06-2005 04:32									#4
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city spot 22 from Fragrant Harbour, adjusted 2 from there. I would also like to see a city site at 221 from Bull Wheat

	11-06-2005 19:32									#5
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We have time to discuss cities, as this Daimyo will probably be able to make just a single new one.

I plan to put a city either on the Hill north of Bull Wheat, or on the Hill north-west of Bull Wheat. My first choice is Bull Wheat 88, to bring fresh water to that Wheat.

Taking a look at our military, and the current builds (Granaries), I doubt we will be able to go to war any time soon. I suggest we keep REXing, and even bow down to some demands to remain undisturbed. Carefully noting whom to punish first, of course...

	11-06-2005 19:45									#6
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Partial report

Made a Worker instead of Ashigaru. Then onwards, making a Settler. No point growing the city before we get more luxuries connected. :|

In other news, the Oda showed us two Settler-pairs walking the same path. Had it been one, I might have tried to take it down. Sure enough, they made a city to our north-east.

Researched Masonry, got Sword Smithing and cash from the neighbours for it. Started Invention, even though they already have it.



4 turns down the road. Our Settler is ready, and the Oda entered our territory with a Settler pair.

I suggest we attack that once it walks on flat terrain. I also suggest to move the Settler to Bull Wheat 88.

I think I will make Ashigaru in the capital now, to attack the Oda, and to send them out into the world to make contacts (cheaper techs!).

41 gold, -5gpt, Invention in 5.

Please advise.

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	12-06-2005 00:29									#7
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We have iron working already? Well done! Make it a priority to get to that iron and build barracks.

Then we will see about Oda.

	12-06-2005 00:54									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube We have iron working already? Well done! Make it a priority to get to that iron and build barracks.

It has a different name, but yes, we do. Got it for Masonry.

Do you mean moving the Settler directly towards the Plains tile 3 from the Iron Mountain, or just sending the Settler north, and preparing more quickly? Sending the Settler so far north would take time, but it would claim a large area, keeping the AI out very effectively... I think that is a splendid idea.

quote: Originally posted by Ljube Then we will see about Oda.

The thing I fear is them moving towards the same source of Iron, and declaring war if I ask them to leave...

	12-06-2005 01:22									#9
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City locations:

I don't like proposed Bull Wheat 8-8 at all. It's crowds out too much of Bull Wheat and there's no need for irrigating over a hill in that spot given the lake. 8-8-8 is better, but we might prefer 1-2-2 to reaquire our gems.

In fact I don't like any city that is only 2 tiles away from the closest city of ours in this conquest.

Two pile pattern just gives the AI more land, not enough time for new cities to turn into pumps giving how many tribes are in Japan.

	12-06-2005 01:33									#10
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn I don't like proposed Bull Wheat 8-8 at all. It's crowds out too much of Bull Wheat and there's no need for irrigating over a hill in that spot given the lake. 8-8-8 is better,

Jon, you propose to settle on a Bonus Grassland in a situation where we already are low on food. The benefit of getting Irrigation faster is just a small thing. The more important issue is getting additional food by not settling on flat land, especially Grassland, especially Bonus Grassland.

quote: Originally posted by joncnunn In fact I don't like any city that is only 2 tiles away from the closest city of ours in this conquest.

But, fortunately, we base our decisions on things like efficiency, not someone's "like" or "dislike", right?

quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Two pile pattern just gives the AI more land, not enough time for new cities to turn into pumps giving how many tribes are in Japan.

This is why I think that moving some Settlers ahead of others is necessary (and thanks to Ljube for the idea ). The close cities can be filled in later, as the AI almost never puts cities that close to others (the sites would be virtually guaranteed). Even better if that allows us to grab resources, as can be done with that Iron source to the north using the available Settler.

	12-06-2005 02:32									#11
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No question - we NEED iron.

	12-06-2005 08:17									#12
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Indeed, Iron to make conquest easier

	12-06-2005 10:21									#13
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to get two slaves
to explore more

do we see only one iron source? if so, we need to get it or we will face an enemy we must fight without iron

	12-06-2005 10:38									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

It is impossible to fight anyone without iron in this game. Therefore, I suggest a city 8-8 from capital, the one Modo proposed. The other city 8-8-8-8 is also good but seems too far. It's unexplored, but if you feel like you can make it, go for it.

Last edited by Ljube on 12-06-2005 at 10:48

	12-06-2005 12:03									#15
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The city 88 from the capital would be certainly assured if I sent the Settler north, right towards the Iron. The AI always avoids settling directly on someone's border, and the Settler would be there before the Oda can do anything. So, how about moving the Settler to that Plains tile to the nort-north-west (just beside the Iron source)?

For the record, Yamabushis and Samurai Archers do not require Iron, so one can do without. The problem is surviving long enough without having Bushis.

Last edited by Modo44 on 12-06-2005 at 12:13

	12-06-2005 17:19									#16
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You think to go to the iron immediately? That plains 3 from iron mountain? That's fine, but there's a barb camp there. You would have to send stronger forces. Perhaps even Daimyo.

I was thinking of iron because the Oda and the southern neighbour have no iron and we could destroy them completely before they get monks. I wouldn't like either of them ever having a single monk.

	12-06-2005 17:22									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube You think to go to the iron immediately? That plains 3 from iron mountain? That's fine, but there's a barb camp there. You would have to send stronger forces. Perhaps even Daimyo.

Making Ashigaru anyway, and one unit can leave the capital this turn. I canl try to send two units immediately, or (if that deos not work), follow with the Daimyo (he is faster).

	12-06-2005 17:39									#18
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Great, but don't forget to kylle the Oda pack for slaves using the daimyo first.

We may promote the Daimyo, who knows.

	12-06-2005 18:27									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube Great, but don't forget to kylle the Oda pack for slaves using the daimyo first. We may promote the Daimyo, who knows.

Or lose him. That would not be very good, would it?

	12-06-2005 19:40									#20
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except we automatically loose the game it will be no problem to loose the daimyo

	12-06-2005 20:14									#21
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No we won´t lose the game, since IIRC the regicide has been disabled to make it harder for us to win...

	12-06-2005 23:08									#22
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I vote for taking possesion of an iron city first and coming back to the first rank order cities next.
Founding a city 3 of Iron will clear both the camp and goody hut, so we may want to remain cash poor.

	12-06-2005 23:12									#23
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Regicide was indeed disabled, so we wouldn't lose the game, but let's not get reckless with him, we can not replace him if we lose.

I strongly suspect though that the AI is keeping it's Daimyo's parked in their starting cities with a lot of defenders.

	13-06-2005 00:05									#24
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Regicide was indeed disabled, so we wouldn't lose the game, but let's not get reckless with him, we can not replace him if we lose. I strongly suspect though that the AI is keeping it's Daimyo's parked in their starting cities with a lot of defenders.

yes indeed, we are to protect our Daimyo why else have a clan of worthy Samurai

	13-06-2005 00:12									#25
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I sent the Settler, and one Ashigaru towards the Iron. Another Ashigaru went north as well -- this one is intended to hunt for contacts. I also blocked the Oda with a Worker.

The Oda went south, so I let them. Attacking on Hills is not really an option with our weak units.

The Matsunaga sent a Settler-pair, too. Now, that might be a target for the next Daimyo.

Meanwhile one new Ashigaru was made, and production of a Settler started (AP means extremely fast growth).

Upon Settling near the Iron, we got maps, and 25 Gold.


The other Ashigaru can see another tribe close by. Contacts a-plenty.

Second Settler done, two turns left to play. I hold here to ask where to place the Settler. The screenie below shows the sites I think are worth considering. The ones with green dots inside are my preferred ideas, especially the one to the far north (again, taking sites away from the AI).

We met the Urukami people. Masonry was exchanged with the Oda for Mystycism and all their 59 Gold. The Urukami gave us Alphabet for Pottery and 22 Gold. All we lack now is Sojutsu, but that is not a mandatory tech.

The Matsunaga payed 10 gold, and provided a Slave for Mystycism. I sent the guy to Road the Incense.

Upgraded our Shogun to 4/4/2. This one should be strong enough to start hunting for Slaves.

Unfortunately, the barbs killed the Ashigaru in the north, so reinforcements need to go there.

39 Gold, -4gpt, The Wheel in 4.

Please advise.

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Last edited by Modo44 on 13-06-2005 at 00:37

	13-06-2005 00:24									#26
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How many turns do you have remaining Daimyop Modo?

	13-06-2005 00:24									#27
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One or two more cities and it might be best to go into war mode. Do we have anything resembling cats yet?

	13-06-2005 00:38									#28
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I said it was two turns, Paddy.

quote: Originally posted by Donegeal One or two more cities and it might be best to go into war mode. Do we have anything resembling cats yet?

We can have four more cities with ease. Why would you leave that be? It is cheaper to build cities instead of capturing them...

	13-06-2005 00:52									#29
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Um no... it is far cheaper to let the AI build cities and then capture them. Thus the thought lines of a Warmonger.

	13-06-2005 01:01									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Donegeal Um no... it is far cheaper to let the AI build cities and then capture them. Thus the thought lines of a Warmonger.

Perhaps it is on Regent. The thing is, we are playing this on Demigod. The AI outproduces us by far, and gets free units with every city it builds. So my humble opinion is, we should take away as much land as possible by peaceful means, then gear up for war, and then start killing the neighbours one by one.