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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:33
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Wow, lots of interest here. I think we may get 2 12 team leagues.
As for differences, last year my league had a WR/RB utility spot and 3 defensive players and Imran's league was team defense with no utility player. Can't think of much else, but I believe Zopper uses a utility spot. Dont know about the defense, but we can see if too many people object to a 3 man defense. Oh yeah, Imran's league may not have awarded points for kick return yardage
If we do have a league with 3 guys on D I advise people to really examine the scoring categories for defenders. Most of the NFL use DBs to return kicks and that counts under last year's settings. But usually the LBs, especially middle, score the most and do so consistently.
This is a list of prefs for this page, not the first.
One league
Stuie
Sloth
Jonny
Jaguar (Z)
Donegeal
Reismark (Z) - assuming team defense
mactbone
unknown
Dissident
Kidicious
Supersneak
two leagues
Slowhand
Berzerker
Imran
GRamsey
Kalius
Tuberski
Looks like several people dont like 3 man defenses.
Here are the settings we had last year (as I remember) and which I'm fine with:
QB
WR
WR
RB
RB
TE
WR/RB
K
D
D
D
and I prefer pretty deep benches and Imran likes them small (he's a sadist), dont know about Zopper though.
Can't remember all the scoring categories, but I know kick return yardage was a difference.
Did we score rushing yards differently or was that FFZ? I think we both agreed to modify the RBs a bit cuz WRs and QBs scored better. 1 point for 10 yds in one league and 1 point for 15 yds in the other instead of the usual 20 yds.
Imran, do you think that turned out good? I did and would propose doing the same this year. At least bump RBs up to 1 point for 15 yds...
edit
I think I(mran's league didn't reward QBs for completions. Thats a big difference since that can result in ~20-30 points in a week.
Last edited by Berzerker on 23-06-2005 at 08:25
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Zopperoni
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Berz,
I'd actually be very comfortable with playing this FFZ style. I think the structure is solid, and based on suggestions made there at the end of the seasion, we should be able to use a good structure.
I don't think we can do big rosters though, unless we set 12-hr time limits on people's picks.
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snoopy369
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Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:33
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I'm in, but I'd like a team defense.
How about an auction draft?  They are fantastic for baseball, but also work interestingly for football ... they often allow for ultimately better teams on all sides, as you aren't forced to take a player you don't like just because of your draft spot.
For Forums, the easiest way to do it is for each of us to start a thread with our first player nominated, and all of those 1st nominations are bid on simultaneously, with a 3-4 day time limit. Then we choose our second player each to nominate, and all bid on them ... etc. As it gets further into the auction, you can lower the time limits (as choosing who to bid your $2 on isn't very hard. )
With a 15 player team, for example, you'd start with $300, average of $20 a player, and bid away.
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Zopperoni
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We can't do an auction with the Yahoo system. You're close with the scoring variables and multipliers.
We're doing 1 pt per 10 yds rushing to balance RBs and WRs. Moreover, I think we deducted points for lost fumbles, interceptions thrown, and incomplete passes.
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Zopperoni
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Well, the RB/WR balance is really good. With 1 pt per 20 yds, an RB who runs 100 yds will only get 5 pts while he played a great game. That's too little.
QBs are good value already. We did 1 pt per completion and .5 pt deduction per incompletion last year. It reflects a good vs a bad day pretty well.
I am not changing the draft system (and I don't think Berz will either). It'll be a slow draft starting somewhere in the week of July 4th.
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Zopperoni
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Do we need people playing two leagues? I was under the impression that the two-league players were only there to fill up empty slots.
We have twenty people who are willing to play, and that'll be sufficient for two ten-man leagues.
I'll look up all the scoring vars.
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Zopperoni
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Offensive Categories (max. 15)
Passing Touchdowns (Pass TD)
Interceptions (Int)
Passing Attempts (Pass Att)
Completions (Comp)
Incomplete Passes (Inc)
Sacks (Sack)
Passing Yards (Pass Yds)
Rushing Touchdowns (Rush TD)
Rushing Attempts (Rush Att)
Rushing Yards (Rush Yds)
Reception Touchdowns (Rec TD)
Receptions (Rec)
Reception Yards (Rec Yds)
Return Touchdowns (Ret TD)
Return Yards (Ret Yds)
Offensive Fumble Return TD (Fum Ret TD)
2-Point Conversions (2-PT)
Fumbles (Fum)
Fumbles Lost (Fum Lost)
Kickers
Field Goal (FG)
Missed Field Goal (FGM)
Point After Attempt Made (PAT Made)
Point After Attempt Missed (PAT Miss)
Defense
Tackle Solo (Tack Solo)
Tackle Assist (Tack Ast)
Sack (Sack)
Interception (Int)
Fumble Force (Fum Force)
Fumble Recovery (Fum Rec)
Touchdown (TD)
Safety (Safe)
Pass Defended (Pass Def)
Block Kick (Blk Kick)
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Zopperoni
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OK, this is what I think:
Passing Touchdowns (Pass TD) 6 pts
Interceptions (Int) -3 pts
Completions (Comp) 1 pt
Incomplete Passes (Inc) -0.5 pt
Passing Yards (Pass Yds) 1 pt/50 yds (1/20 is too generous)
Rushing Touchdowns (Rush TD) 6 pts
Rushing Yards (Rush Yds) 1 pt/10 yds
Reception Touchdowns (Rec TD) 6 pts
Receptions (Rec) 1 pt
Reception Yards (Rec Yds) 1 pt/20 yds
Return Touchdowns (Ret TD) 6 pt
Return Yards (Ret Yds) 1 pt/20 yds
Offensive Fumble Return TD (Fum Ret TD) 6 pt
2-Point Conversions (2-PT) 1 pt (I'd ditch the fumble and take on this as a scoring category instead because fumbles an sich don't hurt a team; it's the lost fumbles that are costly)
Fumbles Lost (Fum Lost -3 pts (this needs to be consistent with an INT, since both are turnovers)
Field Goal (FG) 3 for 39 yds or less, 4 for 40-49, and 5 for 50+
(No missed figgy penalized)
Point After Attempt Made (PAT Made) 1 pt
Tackle Solo (Tack Solo) 1 pt
Tackle Assist (Tack Ast) 0.5 pt
Sack (Sack) 2 pts (a sack shouldn't be worth as much as an INT; I might even want to make that 1.5)
Interception (Int) 3 pts (again, needs to be consistent with the offense penalty)
(No forced fumble pts)
Fumble Recovery (Fum Rec) 3 pts
Touchdown (TD) 6 pts
Safety (Safe) 2 pts (depending on the sack statistic, I might adjust this upwards to 2.5 or leave it 2)
Pass Defended (Pass Def) 0.5 pt (needs to be consistent with an incompletion, so I'm awarding this a similar 0.5 pt multiplier)
Block Kick (Blk Kick) 2 pts (could even make this 3 pts; it is basically a turnover, and it did prevent the opposition score three points)
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Zopperoni
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It's a major difference though. For a 300 yd-game, it's already a nine-point difference, which about equals a decent RB-game.
If I think back to the FFZ league, QBs were already powerhouses with 1/50. If you're gonna tweak it, I wouldn't go higher than 3/100.
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snoopy369
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Of the Peanuts Gallery
Apr 2004
time: 23:33
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I was assuming receivers got credit for yards but not catches. You're right that a RB should get credit the same way - ATT and Yards, or else more pts per yard. (Why not reward attempts?)
Generally QBs get 1/50 to WRs/Rbs 1/20, or 1/25 to wr/rb 1/10. 1/50 for QBs is fine by me, essentially.
I would like to exclude return yards entirely. TDs fine, keep those - but return yards is not a good FFL category; it's either a cruddy player getting them, or a defensive player (neither of whom are on any teams anyway), and only occasionally on good players - but to a large extent they're basically "gimme" yards (15-20/kickoff, 5/punt) in most cases and mostly depend on the opposing team being fast to score. Few returners (Dante excluded ) are actually skilled at their position, and so it's not to me a skill position and shouldn't be credited ...
Also - do we want to consider making TE an optional slot (ie:
QB
RB
RB
WR
WR
WR/TE
WR/RB
K
Def
? Some leagues are going that way, and it's not a bad decision ... too much of the time, TE is just a wasted space anyway, filled with whomever is there, because there are fewer TEs that score a meaningful point count than there are teams in the league ... to me TE in a yahoo league is there just to seperate out the noobs and let them pick TE in the 8th or 9th round, giving me a great backup RB in their place 
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Zopperoni
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quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker
But was that 1 or 2 pts for a 2 pt conversion? |
I'm not sure; I'm leaning towards 2 pts though. If we're handing out 6 pts for a TD and 1 pt for a point-after, we should give 2 pts for a successful 2 pt-conversion.
quote:
And why reduce defended passes? Not every incomplete pass is defended, the defender has to really earn it. Not a biggie. |
On second thought, I agree, so I'll settle for awarding 1 pt for that as well.
quote:
Is there something between 20 and 50? 40 would be okay, might even support 30. |
Yes, there is, you can fill in any number of yards that you want to award one point for. I'll make calculations based on 1/20, 1/35 and 1/50 in a moment.
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Zopperoni
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These are the scoring statistics for three scenarios: (a) 1 pt per 20 yds; (b) 1 pt per 35 yds; and (c) 1 pt per 50 yds.
The three games selected are DEN@TB (16-13), DET@NYG (28-13), and KC@OAK (34-27) from weeks 4, 7, and 13.
QB Stats (rushing stats not included)
Jake Plummer: 13/31 for 138 yds; 1 TD; 0 INTs
Brad Johnson: 15/23 for 168 yds; 1 TD; 0 INTs
Joey Harrington: 18/22 for 230 yds; 2 TDs; 0 INTs
Kurt Warner: 23/34 for 270 yds; 1 TD; 1 INT; 1 FmbLo
Trent Green: 23/35 for 340 yds; 3 TDs; 1 INT
Kerry Collins: 27/41 for 343 yds; 3 TDs; 0 INTs
Scoring Stats (fractional points allowed)
Plummer: (a) 16.9; (b) 13.94; and (c) 12.76
Johnson: (a) 25.4; (b) 21.8; and (c) 20.36
Harrington: (a) 39.5; (b) 34.57; and (c) 32.6
Warner: (a) 30.5; (b) 24.71; and (c) 22.4
Green: (a) 49; (b) 41.71; and (c) 38.8
Collins: (a) 55.15; (b) 47.8; and (c) 44.86
Here's a bonus calculation of Peyton Manning in week 8 (35-45 loss versus KC): 25/44 for 472 yds; 5 TDs; 1 INT:
(a) 66.1; (b) 55.99; and (c) 51.94
The difference between (a) and (b)/(c) is really huge, while the difference between (b) and (c) is much smaller. If we're going for a more generous multiplier, then 1/35 is better than 1/20.
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23-06-2005 03:37
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