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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:34
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And here we are, thinking that we needed to keep our analysis tricks out of the hands of other teams. Part of this is of course that they are available in muliple places for those willing to look around.
We thought to keep everyone in the dark, but clearly there are instances where we would have been helped if we shared what we assumed of others, and how we got the information. We always had a relatively good idea of everyone's military strength, even then. All you need is to have met someone in game...
BTW, one of the last tricks we started to use, is to analyse how many shields were in each city's build queue. I don't know if everyone knows this, but by analysing the costs of sabotage, you can determine to the shield how many shields are in each build queue. If you follow this over a couple of turns, it's fairly easy to see what every city is building, what it's capacity is, and also if possible wonder builds are in danger because someone else will reach a prebuild faster.
DeepO
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:34
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Krill, I'm not sure they were helped by the mob bug. I don't think it's possible for a palace prebuild (palaces can't be built under mob, right?) If they used the Manhatten for a prebuild, there is a big chance they were, either with intent or not.
And yes, MZ, it only was one turn. We thought you were going for Manhatten, not the UN.
For those not in the know: there is a bug during mobilization that, if you've got wrong intent, can be used to gain the mob bonus when you're not entitled to it. It basically is the following: not all allowed builds during mob gain the bonus. However, Civ only checks whether it has to give the bonus or not whenever they governor suggests a new build, or whenever some terrain change (pollution, irr) happens.
During war, your governor will always suggest something defensive or offensive to build (e.g. tank), which receives the bonus. Now, after suggestion you can change this to e.g. a settler, and as the bonus is not checked again, you will gain it, as it still remembers the bonus setting from the tank. And it will keep on giving the bonus until either terrain has changed (pollution or improvement), or the next build is chosen by the governor.
There are some tweaks to it, but basically it can give a GA for a limited number of buildings if you have a partner where you can declare war-peace to on every occasion you want. This includes prebuilds, I thought. We ran into to it about once every turn, where we improved terrain after the build selection to delete the bonus where we weren't supposed to get it, and to get it where we weren't.
DeepO
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:34
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MZ, it's not about building peaceful buildings in mob, that always has been possible. But, for the UN for instance, you're not supposed to get the bonus.
If you start to build this wonder during mob, you've got a good chance you hit the bug: if you select the build from the little window, the governor most likely had suggested a tank or so. After that screen is displayed, the bonus isn't checked again, so you keep receiving the bonus even after changing the build orders to the UN. If you would be hit by pollution in that city, however, the bonus is rechecked again, and your spt is adjusted as it is a building which is not supposed to get extra shields.
You can exploit this: If you switch any city to a tank, you can improve some terrain (e.g. irr+mine) so the city gets the bonus. After that, change the build to a wonder, and you get too many spt.
As to us declaring war just to get out of mob for one turn: I'm not sure anymore, you've got to ask Aeson. But it's possible we did this a while after the Lego war ended. We felt that because in normal circumstances Lego wold have been gone it should be allowed. We did it at most once, though, never during the buildup to the Lego war. Our mob was timed so all our peacetime-buildings were started before hitting the button. And believe me, in some of the cities this hurt as I would've loved an extra market or lib.
DeepO
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Master Zen
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of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:34
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quote:
Originally posted by DeepO
MZ, it's not about building peaceful buildings in mob, that always has been possible. But, for the UN for instance, you're not supposed to get the bonus.
If you start to build this wonder during mob, you've got a good chance you hit the bug: if you select the build from the little window, the governor most likely had suggested a tank or so. After that screen is displayed, the bonus isn't checked again, so you keep receiving the bonus even after changing the build orders to the UN. If you would be hit by pollution in that city, however, the bonus is rechecked again, and your spt is adjusted as it is a building which is not supposed to get extra shields.
You can exploit this: If you switch any city to a tank, you can improve some terrain (e.g. irr+mine) so the city gets the bonus. After that, change the build to a wonder, and you get too many spt.
As to us declaring war just to get out of mob for one turn: I'm not sure anymore, you've got to ask Aeson. But it's possible we did this a while after the Lego war ended. We felt that because in normal circumstances Lego wold have been gone it should be allowed. We did it at most once, though, never during the buildup to the Lego war. Our mob was timed so all our peacetime-buildings were started before hitting the button. And believe me, in some of the cities this hurt as I would've loved an extra market or lib.
DeepO |
I'll have to check but IIRC we used the Manhattan Project as a prebuild for the UN, we only switched to the UN the 3 turns before it was supposed to be built since the MP has less shields (800 vs 1000). Then when ND beat us to it, we switched back.
I'm not sure if this triggered the bug, to be honest I still don't quite understand what it is. What I can assure you is that the turn build never changed, i.e. it took 12 turns more or less to build the UN in Killdaria from the start. Also whatever changes to the build in that city were done by right-clicking on the map.
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Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:34
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If you accept a peace treaty, you lose the mob bonus before the shields are calculated. Therefore you can not constantly exploit it, but you can set everything on a largish prebuild (tank just about works, MA is slightly better, preferably a battleship), and change it at a certain point. It would take alot of MM and calculation, but it can be done.
Something like this should be outlawed in the other Demogames, PTWDG2, C3CDG, and the future CIVDG, maybe something like any builds that have shields accumulated from mob can only be changed to certain builds (eg tank, inf, destroyer, bomber, worker and settler etc)
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11-06-2005 15:15
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