11-06-2005 21:58									#1
	Can Pol: Conservatives snatch defeat... Suffering from ads?

More proof that the Conservatives have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by deflecting public attention away from the Liberal scandal onto their pathetic mismanagement.

Canadians are growing increasingly negative in their impressions of Tory Leader Stephen Harper as the public shifts its focus from the Gomery inquiry to questions of leadership and stability.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...Story/National/


And in other news, suspected criminal Conservative MP Grumat Grewal is accused of committing fraud to become a Canadian citizen.

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Londo...078275-sun.html

Five will get you 10 that the Conservatives will respond by criticizing voters rather than trying to solve the problems within their party.

	11-06-2005 22:01									#2
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Ah, theglobeandmail. A grand news source that is.

	11-06-2005 22:05									#3
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Is it the conservative party that is deflecting criticism of the liberal party, or it is the allies of the liberal party?

I happen to notice that there STILL has not been an election called. Whatever happened to respecting the wishes of the people of Canada?

	11-06-2005 22:14									#4
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Nah, the Conservatives did it to themselves with their incompetant attempt at a no confidence vote.

You should be thankful that an election has not been called. The Tories would lose if the surveys are accurate.

As for the wishes of Canadians, how do you know that Canadians want an election?

	11-06-2005 22:19									#5
	Remove this text

In case you've forgotten, until the defection of Ms. Stronach, the Liberals had LOST confidence motions in the house, and could not get any work done. Even after her defection, the budget tie was broken by the speaker of the house.

I don't think Ms. Stronach has the support of her constituency.

If the Liberals are so confident in their election success, why don't they call an election?

	11-06-2005 22:31									#6
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Because there is no need for an election at this point. Seems to me that surveys indicate they want the government to do its job rather than going to an election.

As for Stronach, the Harper screwed up. An effective leader, well, leads. He should have rallied the troops and kept them focused. And he should have taken into account that Ontario MPs wanted money put back into cities.

His inability to control the Conservative MPs reflect poorly on his leadership abilities.

And whatever you might think of Stronach, opinion polls suggest that she would still have the support of her constituents given that the Globe poll shows 41% of Ontario voters supporting the Liberals.

	11-06-2005 22:43									#7
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Hmm, when Mr. MacKay sat up all night with Belinda trying to convince her not to defect, and that a defection from the conservative party would do harm to both the party and to her, how is that a reflection on Harper?

I don't think Harper could have said anything to Belinda to convince her to remain within the conservative party. She wanted to be leader, and so long as Harper was the top dog, she couldn't be the top dog.

You think she hasn't noticed who is the oldest party leader?

quote: And whatever you might think of Stronach, opinion polls suggest that she would still have the support of her constituents given that the Globe poll shows 41% of Ontario voters supporting the Liberals

41% in Ontario is not the same as winning Newmarket Aurora.

Secondly, why don't the liberals call an election if they are confident they will win?

quote: Seems to me that surveys indicate they want the government to do its job rather than going to an election.

So why doesn't the government, when the majority of people say that they do not want gay marriage, follow the wishes of the majority of the people?

Could it be that they only care about polls when they agree with the Liberals?

	11-06-2005 23:00									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Hmm, when Mr. MacKay sat up all night with Belinda trying to convince her not to defect, and that a defection from the conservative party would do harm to both the party and to her, how is that a reflection on Harper?

It's a question of leadership, pure and simple. I hate Mulroney, but the man was a great leader. He knew how to keep his troops in line. So did Trudeau and Chretien.

Keeping Stronach in line was simply a matter of making the deals that are always made within parties, or making her feel like she was in control. As Eisenhower said: Leadership is the art of making someone do what you want done because they want to do it.

The problem with Harper is that he's not a friendly type of guy. He's not a leader.

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi I don't think Harper could have said anything to Belinda to convince her to remain within the conservative party. She wanted to be leader, and so long as Harper was the top dog, she couldn't be the top dog.

A great example of leadership is Tony Blair keeping Gordon Brown in line.

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi 41% in Ontario is not the same as winning Newmarket Aurora.

Fine, show me some proof the people in Newmarket-Aurora are against her.

The riding was traditionally Liberal and Stronach only narrowly won. So now that she is a Liberal, she's more likely to win the riding, not lose it, particularly when she fought to get more federal spending in the riding.

But, if you have information that says otherwise, I'd like to see it.

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi So why doesn't the government, when the majority of people say that they do not want gay marriage, follow the wishes of the majority of the people? Could it be that they only care about polls when they agree with the Liberals?

You're the one saying Canadians want an election, not the Liberals.

As for gay marriage, most of the polls I've seen show that Canadians are split on the issue, within the error of margin so it is impossible to say whether a majority agree or disagree.

	12-06-2005 06:25									#9
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Didn't we just have an election?

In any case, I wouldn't mind having Peter MacKay as my Prime Minister. He's presentable, and doesn't look like a golem or a paedophile, so I wouldn't be embarassed when I read international news about Canada. I wonder if he would be good at it. I guess it doesn't matter though, since I can't vote for him.

SP

	12-06-2005 11:58									#10
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Tingkai:

First of all, I doubt that anything Mr. Harper could have done would have convinced Belinda to stay in the party. It seems she was bought off by the promise of a cabinet post, and that's something she felt she could not pass up.

quote: The riding was traditionally Liberal and Stronach only narrowly won. So now that she is a Liberal, she's more likely to win the riding, not lose it, particularly when she fought to get more federal spending in the riding.

That's assuming the Liberals in the riding will vote for Stronach, considering the fact that they voted against her in the last election, and that enough of her conservative constituency will carry over to make up for the shortfall in Liberal support.

Unfortunately I don't have numbers on Newmarket-Aurora, but just because someone defects, does not ensure they draw support from both parties.

quote: You're the one saying Canadians want an election, not the Liberals. As for gay marriage, most of the polls I've seen show that Canadians are split on the issue, within the error of margin so it is impossible to say whether a majority agree or disagree.

Yep I think Canadians do want an election, just not the ones in Liberal ridings, otherwise we would be going to an election soon.

As for gay marriage, why are we going full steam ahead with it if the public sentiment is so divided? That's what I don't understand. I see ads that say, parliament has work to do, meaning they need to pass the bill before any election, and that the Liberal party seems resolutely commited to obey this segment of popular sentiment, to the detriment of those who are opposed to the bill. Yet the same Liberal party evades an election through any means necessary, to achieve the same goal.

They don't have a mandate, yet they govern as if they had one.