25-06-2005 07:00									#331
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Truth has ceased to be a functioning concept in American political life. It has it bad everywhere, but at least it is has the final trump. Not any more.

Shrub is going on TV next week. I reckon he will say that the US will withdraw and they won't.

	25-06-2005 07:07									#332
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I'm not sure about that - if it were true ordinary people would be believing the lies.

And this war was built on terrible almost pornographic lies.

	25-06-2005 07:39									#333
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I'm not sure about that - if it were true ordinary people would be believing the lies. And this war was built on terrible almost pornographic lies.

What I mean is that it doesn't matter if they believe it or not. Plenty of people are willing to give Bush a pass because they are convinced that wrecking international politics is a good idea.

	25-06-2005 07:57									#334
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon What I mean is that it doesn't matter if they believe it or not. Plenty of people are willing to give Bush a pass because they are convinced that wrecking international politics is a good idea.

Is it that or is it the fact that national dignity and pride are caught up in it? Americans have rallied around the President because they can't believe they are going down again against a fourth rate power. This is very hard for Americans to accept. They need to believe they are winning - all the time, no matter what.

Also it seems to me very important for Americans and their armies in particular to believe in their wars in a way that simply isn't the case for Brits New Zealanders or Australians. We never give our troops political reasons for going to war - freedom, liberation and all that bull. Its their duty. They do what the government orders them to do.

	25-06-2005 07:59									#335
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Is it that or is it the fact that national dignity and pride are caught up in it? Americans have rallied around the President because they can't believe they are going down again against a fourth rate power. This is very hard for Americans to accept. They want to believe they are winning. Also it seems to me very important for Americans and their armies in particular to believe in their wars in a way that simply isn't the case for Brits New Zealanders or Australians. We never give our troops political reasons for going to war - freedom, liberation and all that bull. Its their duty. They do what the government orders them to do.

This is all true, but the sheer audacity of Bush seems to have made no difference to the electability of his party. I think that the repugs will gain more seats in the mid terms. The Democrats are a joke after all.

	25-06-2005 08:44									#336
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon This is all true, but the sheer audacity of Bush seems to have made no difference to the electability of his party. I think that the repugs will gain more seats in the mid terms. The Democrats are a joke after all.

Don't count on it. Congress approval ratings are abysmal, and since the GOP controls it, they'll get more of the blame. The Dems also have smarter leadership this time around in Reid and Pelosi (The GOP glee at ousting Daschle has quickly been turned around, as they've lost their best lightning rod). On top of that, since the GOP has vastly more seats to defend, the odds are stacked against them for seat retention.

The Dems are going to pick up several Senate seats (PA being the juciest, since Santorum's ratings are in the shitter and he'll be facing a popular state Democrat), and even more House seats. I doubt it will be enough for them to take control of either chamber, but that depends on how much lower opinion of the Republicans can sink.

	25-06-2005 12:18									#337
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Boris, I fear you are wrong on that one. Due to computerized gerrymandering, continued weakness from the Democratic leadership, and feel versus issue nature of current American politics, I don't think we are going to see a change until current Neocon economic policy implodes, and people begun to realize how all the laws snuck through ("snuck" for those too f**king lazy to follow what is going on) turn around and bite. Hard, as in things like the bankruptcy laws, and the rules letting companies shed retirement systems.

The presidency has become a popularity contest that flies in the face of fact and issues. People elected Bush Jr. because they "trusted" him and "felt" he would be good for security. Until Americans start voting on issues, and the records of the involved politicians on those issues, political operatives like Reed for the Christian Coalistion, and Karl Rove, will have more to do with the next American President and congressional representation than the actual voters. That is why I've stated I hold my fellow voters in contempt. I especially save that for those who do not vote in their party primaries (except for independents who I feel are misguided, but I respect their principle and stubbornness - primaries are critical in US politics).

	25-06-2005 13:11									#338
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Jerrymandering is a real problem. These politicians have rigged the system so in one party's favor that there really isn't a contest in most districts. You'd have to seea truly huge ground swell before many incumbants will lose their seats. It's just very difficult to get these guys out once they've stacked the deck in their favor.

	25-06-2005 19:11									#339
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What's interesting is that an Australian and a New Zealander understand out situation better than we do ourselves.


This week, a corner was turned. But, it's not the corner the Adminstration talks about. The negativity of public reports on Iraq are increasing in number. The press are running stories frequently about opinion polls slipping. We have generals going on public record about losing confidence. There was a Department of State official talking today on the radio about his experiences in the Green Zone in Iraq, in which he never sleeps, carries a submachine gun with him to bed, posts 2 guards outside his door, and never gets any sleep, only catnaps. That's someone within the Administration that is speaking out.

I think we are to the point where we want a new roadmap on Iraq, because the current status-quo is not getting us anywhere.

Personally I would fire Rumsfeld and replace him with Powell. But I doubt Powell would want to take over with such a mess on his hands and a lack of resources at his disposal.

The lack of our efforts to build the Iraqi security forces is "beyond incompetent," in the words of Senators Lugar and McCain. (Both Republicans, by the way).

	25-06-2005 20:38									#340
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker What's interesting is that an Australian and a New Zealander understand out situation better than we do ourselves.

I don't really understand it better Ted - but for better or for worse we're joined at the hip with the US.

I just wish the Bush administration would listen to its allies more, especially the Brits, they have a lot to offer.

Anything would be better than just lying and lying and lying, which is what they do now. Its makes you wnat to weep.

The fact that US forces can't even walk the streets alone in Iraq is telling in terms of how the war is going.

I read the news today oh, boy
About a lucky man who made the grade
And though the news was rather sad
Well I just had to laugh and
I saw the photograph

	25-06-2005 21:25									#341
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Hell, the green zone is safe enough and that guy just must be insecure. All those buildings are steel reinforced concrete with five foot thick walls. Everyone is armed and a good lock on the door is all you need since there are so many patrols.

If some guy is so worried he can't sleep then he's just being paranoid.

	25-06-2005 23:08									#342
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Don't count on it. Congress approval ratings are abysmal, and since the GOP controls it, they'll get more of the blame. The Dems also have smarter leadership this time around in Reid and Pelosi (The GOP glee at ousting Daschle has quickly been turned around, as they've lost their best lightning rod). On top of that, since the GOP has vastly more seats to defend, the odds are stacked against them for seat retention. The Dems are going to pick up several Senate seats (PA being the juciest, since Santorum's ratings are in the shitter and he'll be facing a popular state Democrat), and even more House seats. I doubt it will be enough for them to take control of either chamber, but that depends on how much lower opinion of the Republicans can sink.

You're forgetting that the Democrats hate America and are attempting to ban Christianity in the service of the filthy fag communist agenda.

I would have thought that Bush would have gone in the last election, but I knew that rationality no longer matters in US politics.

	25-06-2005 23:12									#343
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quote: What's interesting is that an Australian and a New Zealander understand out situation better than we do ourselves.

We don't see what is going on through the lens of the American media. That tends to give you a different perspective.

I'd hate to think what I'd believe if I restricted myself to CNN.

	26-06-2005 08:23									#344
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Hell, the green zone is safe enough and that guy just must be insecure. All those buildings are steel reinforced concrete with five foot thick walls. Everyone is armed and a good lock on the door is all you need since there are so many patrols. If some guy is so worried he can't sleep then he's just being paranoid.

Oerdin,

This guy went though the bombing incident in which abut 40 or so people were killed. This is the one in which the Iraqis loaded up a garbage truck full of explosives and blew it up outside a hotel. It was considered the largest "car" bomb that has been set off in Iraq. He says he hears gunfire every night.

	26-06-2005 10:04									#345
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The other problem with the Bush administration is that they have a very childish "do over" mentality. They have used heavily slanted, private intelligence to justify the results they expect (Rumsfeld's special intelligence group in the Pentagon, pre-war), and then want to be able to simply redo it when it doesn't work.

Occupations do not work that way. There are critical points, and if you do not get it right you may never get that opportunity again. Thus ignoring most intelligence experts who had been gaming Iraq II since the first Gulf War, and the advice of some of our allies, led to the Iraq spinning out of control. Instead of assembling a comprehensive group of contractors, including allied countries, to get the infrastructure set up immediately, they dicked around making Haliburton the only primary contractor for most things, and since it was non-competitive Haliburton spent it's own good time getting organized because rush jobs are very expensive (i.e. less profit). Most of the rapid rebuilding work was the little our military was permitted to do.

Of course that challenges the dogma about contracting out all those messy non-combat functions, and the smaller, leaner military. The problem is that the contractors need protecting, unlike the various military rear echelon units in WW2 that were critical in stopping the Nazis at Bastogne - they may not have been first class troops, but they could still fight. Also civilians have this funny desire to work in a safe environment, unlikely military support people who are trained to work in the opposite.

I digress (as usual). Back on topic. Instead of regrouping, and reexamining other options, i.e. the Balkanization of Iraq into three religious-ethnic states (something Condi is opposed to, I listened to one of her speeches and she believes in the old inviolate border theory), this administration continues down the path that leads to a never-ending insurgency. "Bring them on" to quote Bush Jr. whose administration made a series of disastrous assumptions.

Instead of increasing the number of occupation forces, rebuilding the contracted-out rear echelon units, etc. we are instead creating rapid deployment light infranty units (don't get me started) and not learning a damn thing. Plus we are still not deploying enough troops to control the border with Syria as well as our other security committments inside Iraq. I would have thought Vietnam would have taught the military about asymetric warfare - but I'm being unfair. It's not the military, they are doing the best with the resources, units, force structure, and conflicts assigned to them by their civilian leadership. We need to get rid of Rumfeld, Ms. Rice, and then Bush Jr. ASAP.

	26-06-2005 16:30									#346
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Couldn't have said it better myself Shawn. I agree 100%. The military guys must be seething right now after bad decision after bad decision.

Rapid deployment light infantry units. Where have we heard that before.

	27-06-2005 09:26									#348
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Rapid deployment light infranty units get chewed up in regular conflicts, in insurgencies, in almost every damn application they are used. They ONLY legitimate use, IMHO (and in many experts opinions, also) is as a stop gap measure, when you don't have any or enough troops for an unexpected - sudden - unplanned military operation. You should NEVE use them to take the place of regular military units.

I haven't seen any recent TOE (table of organization and equipment) for those units, but one was published when Rumsfeld was first pushing for his military "restructuring". They have no organic artillery. MORONS. Air Power is nice, but in certain weather conditions it is simply not available, and very seldom do they keep it available continuously, and even when they do it typically consists of a limited number of airstrikes.

Regular artillery, now typically M19A6 155mm SP (self-propelled) has a range of 30 km with a 105lb round. That's for the Paladin, the Crusader has an even better range. The Paladin can fire four rounds per minute, with the first round on target in slightly under 60 seconds. That means that a battery of six can fire 2430 pounds per minute. Which does not have to worry about being shot down, and adjacent batteries within 30 km (with even more range with certain enhanced munitions) can also lend fire support.

This means that if your unit gets in trouble, depending on how things are deployed you can immediately, in under a minute, have at least a ton of explosives landing on the bad guys every minute. For each adjacent battery, you can add another ton of explosive. Per minute. That is why Rumsfeld rapid deployment battalions are an abomination when they become the Army's standard deployment unit. They are essentially accepting more dead soldiers so the politicians can get instant response, i.e. not have to accept responsibility for effective planning and diplomacy. That is the difference between having an ex-military man with a brain, Bush Sr., in charge during a conflict instead of a National Guard wannabe who is clueless about bad advice (Rumsfeld), read Bush Jr. If you really believe in our troops, next time make sure in your primaries a moron like Bush Jr. is eliminated.