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MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 08:38 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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Some people will continue to plug their ears and sing out loud, "I can't hear you, I can't hear you!"

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
time: 21:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 10:38
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In related news it seems Rumsfield will get his leaners Army but not the way he was thinking. Enlistments in the Army have fallen off precipitously -- missing the quota by 42 percent for May's original goal of 8,050 enlistees.

Short of fresh troops to relieve units deployed twice or three times into Iraqi, the Army is abandoning standards of its all-volunteer force.

It wants to lure enlistees with a doubled signup bonus of $40,000. Maximum age for new officers is being raised from 35 years old to 42. Criminal offenses will no longer be a bar to enlistment. Educational standards will be relaxed. Army personnel usually discharged for misconduct and inferior performance will be allowed to remain.

BTW Rumsfield continues to claim the force isn't over stretched and that they don't need to expand the total number of troops in the military in order to slow down the op-temp. Even responsible Republican Senators like McCain have said they have no confidence in Rumsfield and that he's running the military into the ground.

http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php...5&ID=2005103539

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 10:54 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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The Iraqi charade is destroying the Army the same way Vietnam did. Just not to the same degree...yet.

No offense Oerdin. You are a good soldier.

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
Deity
Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 11:01 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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they are already sending back amputees - probably the first war ever where that has happened

Maybe Charles Grainer and Lyndie England will get a second tour

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 11:05 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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I'm surprised we aren't going to 3rd world nations to get soldiers. The way Rome used to get the Germans to do all their fighting in later years.

We already do alot of outsourcing, why not outsource the army. In this adminstration's masturbatory affection for privitization, it would make sense.

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

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"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 11:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
they are already sending back amputees - probably the first war ever where that has happened


I'd really like to see a source for that, if for no other reason than to tick myself off reading it.

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 11:20 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
I'm surprised we aren't going to 3rd world nations to get soldiers. The way Rome used to get the Germans to do all their fighting in later years.



You tried that before and ended up with the Taliban

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 11:25 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DRoseDARs


I'd really like to see a source for that, if for no other reason than to tick myself off reading it.


What better source than Foxnews, who think amputees going back to Iraq is a damn fine idea.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151759,00.html

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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Jan 1970
time: 21:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 11:41 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse


You tried that before and ended up with the Taliban


Good point.

They seem to want to blow us up when we stop paying them.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
time: 21:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 11:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse


What better source than Foxnews, who think amputees going back to Iraq is a damn fine idea.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151759,00.html


On the upside they aren't likely to find any other employer that wants them. Sucks but true.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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Jan 1970
time: 21:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 12:07 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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I have mixed feelings. Someone with a prosthetic limb who wants to fight should certainly be able to if they can do the job.

On the other hand it does show the extremes to which the Army is going if it is doing something like that that it has not before.

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 12:27 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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I tend to think those who have given a limb have done their bit, but yes, its their call.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
time: 21:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 20:35
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Most people would but suspect they'd be working at Wal-mart if they didn't stay with the Army so that could be a financially better choice for them.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 20:58 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Of course, you could argue that attributing nearly any attack to Al Qaeda is misleading, given the extremely nebulous nature of that organization. Such is the problem with using commonly accepted, but ultimately inaccurate terms.


Not really. Various organizations have MOs. When the 2nd tower was hit, I knew AQ was behind it (I was also one of the few people who knew the morning of the OKC bombing that white supremicists/militias were behind it). That's their MO, big showy attacks. Nearly all of AQs attacks have the same character.

While AQ isn't like EIJ or Abu Nidal, it's real and it's an actual force.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
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Sep 2001
time: 21:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 21:02
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AP: We "dropped the ball" on Downing memo

As newspaper editors look back and examine why the controversial Downing Street memo, first published by the Times of London on May 1, received so little coverage in their papers, several of them are pointing to the same culprit: the Associated Press. Editors rely on the worldwide wire service to let them know what's worthy of attention, and that's particularly true for international events. In the case of the Downing Street memo out of London, they say the AP simply failed to cover the story.

Jim Cox, USA Today's senior assignment editor for foreign news, tells Salon that when the story first broke last month, "we looked to wires for guidance" but for days didn't see anything. It was a month before the paper reported on the memo; Cox takes the blame for that omission.

On Sunday, the ombudsman at the Minneapolis Star-Tribune addressed readers' complaints about the paper's lack of Downing memo coverage. According to that account, the paper's nation/world editor, Dennis McGrath, was aware of the memo story when it broke in May, and he and his deputies "began watching for a wire story. A week later, they were still watching. 'We were frustrated the wires weren't providing stories on this,' McGrath said." The paper eventually assigned the story to a local reporter.

At the Portland Oregonian recently, public editor Michael Arrieta-Walden covered the same territory: "For an international story, the Oregonian primarily relies on material provided from about 10 wire services. The Associated Press, the world's largest newsgathering organization, essentially didn't cover the document in its reports until last weekend in a story mostly about John Bolton, Bush's nominee to become U.N. ambassador. The document then was reported on in an AP story stemming from last week's news conference involving Blair and Bush."

More...

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_r...ning/index.html

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
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Sep 2001
time: 21:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 21:04
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LA Times: New Memos Detail Early Plans for Invading Iraq (Newly-released documents; not DSM)

LONDON — In March 2002, the Bush administration had just begun to publicly raise the possibility of confronting Iraq. But behind the scenes, officials already were deeply engaged in seeking ways to justify an invasion, newly revealed British memos indicate.

Foreshadowing developments in the year before the war started, British officials emphasized the importance of U.N. diplomacy, which they said might force Saddam Hussein into a misstep. They also suggested that confronting the Iraqi leader be cast as an effort to prevent him from using weapons of mass destruction or giving them to terrorists.

The documents help flesh out the background to the formerly top-secret "Downing Street memo" published in the Sunday Times of London last month, which said that top British officials were told eight months before the war began that military action was "seen as inevitable." President Bush and his main ally in the war, British Prime Minister Tony Blair, have long maintained that they had not made up their minds to go to war at that stage.

"Nothing could be farther from the truth," Bush said last week, responding to a question about the July 23, 2002, memo. "Both of us didn't want to use our military. Nobody wants to commit military into combat. It's the last option."

More...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...-home-headlines

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 21:08 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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quote:

I'd prefer to define it as a war against Islamism as well, but that's not a term that has come into common use. One side calls it a war on "terror", the other side calls it a war on "Al Qaeda". I'd personally rather dump both terms, as they're both misleading, but I don't really have enough pull to frame the debate.


You want a war against Islamism? What the hell does that mean? You realize that Islamists aren't necessarily terrorists, right? You realize that the Iraqi national gov't and half of the provincial gov't's are dominated by Islamists, right?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 21:09 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Sure, blame AP. God damn ****wads.

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
Emperor
Caught in a tuna net
Jan 1970
time: 05:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 21:15
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I didn't do my job because no-one told me what to write.

Ramo is offline Ramo
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Oct 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 21:19 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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See Jon Stewart's comparison of American and British press...

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
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Dec 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 15-06-2005 21:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
quote:

I'd prefer to define it as a war against Islamism as well, but that's not a term that has come into common use. One side calls it a war on "terror", the other side calls it a war on "Al Qaeda". I'd personally rather dump both terms, as they're both misleading, but I don't really have enough pull to frame the debate.


You want a war against Islamism? What the hell does that mean? You realize that Islamists aren't necessarily terrorists, right? You realize that the Iraqi national gov't and half of the provincial gov't's are dominated by Islamists, right?


It strikes me as odd that many of the people who want a war against Islamism in general are also those who complain that the US discriminates against Christians.

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
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Jan 1970
time: 05:34
  Old Post 16-06-2005 01:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
See Jon Stewart's comparison of American and British press...


I had a look for the May 4th episode of the Daily Show, but couldn't get very far as all the links I found are dead.

Got any links that work?

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:34
  Old Post 16-06-2005 09:14 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Oerdin: Looks like it's picking up steam. Let's see if it gets any traction.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:34
  Old Post 17-06-2005 01:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin


If you are suck a jackass that you're still trying to deny such a well proven fact then you simply are a hack who isn't worth wasting time on. This has been showen time and again including in a memo in this very thread. Why not try your hand at halocaust denial ot claiming the sun won't rise tomorow because that would be easier then denying Bush lied and fixed his "proof" to justify his illegal war. That's simply the facts and one day you will accept them if you stop being such a hack.


I'm still awaiting proof or links to the other memos that show FORGED (aka falsified and made out of whole cloth) data. Selective choosing of data I've already indicated existed. Forged is another matter and a charge you have stated as fact when in fact it is nowhere to be seen in the actual Downing Street memo (do the other memos shed any light on the subject?).

But perhaps its better to be completely over the top making overreaching baseless claims.

I expect a normal reasoned response from you along lines of you a$$hole jackass hack or something to that effect, which do so well at supporting your arguement.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
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Sep 2001
time: 21:34
  Old Post 17-06-2005 03:25
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Bush publically claimed there were vast quantities of WMD in Iraq, that Saddam was behind 9/11, and that Saddam would give WMD's to Al Qaeda. All three of those claims were the exact opposite of the British and American intell reports which were given to Bush. If that isn't making stuff up I don't know what is.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
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Oct 2001
time: 14:34
  Old Post 17-06-2005 05:24
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"Most Americans already know what's in the Downing Street Memo. They knew it before the memo was even published. And they don't care."

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Dec 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 17-06-2005 05:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
Bush publically claimed there were vast quantities of WMD in Iraq, that Saddam was behind 9/11, and that Saddam would give WMD's to Al Qaeda. All three of those claims were the exact opposite of the British and American intell reports which were given to Bush. If that isn't making stuff up I don't know what is.



Now that's true.

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

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Jan 1970
time: 23:34
  Old Post 17-06-2005 05:43 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Hmmm... could you find a link to where Bush "publically" claimed that Saddam was behind 9/11... I don't remember that speech...

I do remember the massive amounts of WMD bit, and how they would end up in terrorists hands... but not the third...

MrFun is offline MrFun
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time: 23:34
  Old Post 17-06-2005 05:54 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
"Most Americans already know what's in the Downing Street Memo. They knew it before the memo was even published. And they don't care."



That's a reliable website for information?

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
Deity
Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:34
  Old Post 17-06-2005 07:04 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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http://www.globalpolicy.org/securit...3/0918proof.htm

Ming's point I think

 
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