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Sprayber is offline Sprayber

Emperor
Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:33
Lightbulb  Old Post 12-06-2005 08:11
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Not exactly on the same scale as the pyramids but you got to start somewhere uh

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/2005061...in_050611223536


quote:
LONDON (AFP) - Europe's oldest civilisation has reportedly been discovered by archaelogists across the continent.
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More than 150 large temples, constructed between 4800 BC and 4600 BC, have been unearthed in fields and cities in Germany, Austria and Slovakia, predating the pyramids in Egypt by some 2,000 years, The Independent newspaper revealed.

The network of temples, made of earth and wood, were constructed by a religious people whose economy appears to have been based on livestock farming, The Independent reported.

Excavations have taken place over the past three years but the discovery is so new that the civilisation has not yet been named.

The most complex centre discovered so far, beneath the city of Dresden in Saxony, eastern Germany, comprises a temple surrounded by four ditches, three earthen banks and two palisades.

"Our excavations have revealed the degree of monumental vision and sophistication used by these early farming communities to create Europe's first truly large scale earthwork complexes," said Harald Staeuble, from the Saxony state government's heritage department.

The temples, up to 150 metres (164 yards) in diameter, were made by a people who lived in long houses and villages, the newspaper said. Stone, bone, and wooden tools have been unearthed, along with ceramic figures of people and animals.

A village at Aythra, near Leipzig in eastern Germany, was home to some 300 people living in up to 20 large buildings around the temple.



edit: fixed the link

Last edited by Sprayber on 12-06-2005 at 08:56

DerSchwarzfalke is offline DerSchwarzfalke
Chieftain
USA
Jul 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 08:13 Visit DerSchwarzfalke's homepage!
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Did these people worship a carpenter? Or an old man?

Joseph is offline Joseph
Prince
Ca. USA
Feb 2000
time: 21:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 08:18
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There is a place in Utah that they are now looking at.
It appears to be between 5000 to 6000 years ago.
That would make it between 3000 to 4000 BC

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 08:45 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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Wow!

Cool article.

Any pics?

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 08:51
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Yeah, Europe had some great pre-historic stuff going on. BBC America had a special a few weeks back about several mound & earthwork fortress builders in England which predated Stonehenge. They looked like a pretty complex system of defensive mounds and palicades which were shaped like concentric circles with openings for each ring on opposite sides from the last. That meant archers got lots of time to pick off bad guys before they got through the walls.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 14:44
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Very cool

Lazarus and the Gimp is offline Lazarus and the Gimp
King
Whale-raping abomination
Aug 2000
time: 05:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 15:16
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Pfft. There are dolmens near Sligo (Ireland) that are over three thousand years older than that. It's a very long way off being Europe's oldest civilisation.

Dracon II is offline Dracon II
King
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 1970
time: 15:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 17:39
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They were probably pagans. No carpenter worshipping back in those days!

I was watching a documentary on pagans.... apparently some of them used to have sex with their horses.

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
Emperor
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 17:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
Yeah, Europe had some great pre-historic stuff going on. BBC America had a special a few weeks back about several mound & earthwork fortress builders in England which predated Stonehenge. They looked like a pretty complex system of defensive mounds and palicades which were shaped like concentric circles with openings for each ring on opposite sides from the last. That meant archers got lots of time to pick off bad guys before they got through the walls.


Are you sure there would of been "archers" in england at that time? (or just people throwing stuff?)

Bosh is offline Bosh
Emperor
Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 18:27
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quote:
Wars will never cease while men still kill other animals for food, since to turn any living creature into a roast, a steak, a chop, or any other form of "meat" takes the same kind of violence, the same kind of bloodshed, and the same kind of mental processes required to change a living man into a dead soldier. - Anges Ryan

Mmmmmm, steak. Its been far too long since I've had a good steak.

MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

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Macedonia, Greece
Jan 1970
time: 07:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 19:50 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
The network of temples, made of earth and wood
and what exactly remains from that after 7000 years????? and what is this earth material?

molly bloom is offline molly bloom
Prince
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 19:59
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
quote:
The network of temples, made of earth and wood
and what exactly remains from that after 7000 years????? and what is this earth material?



I suspect that what remains is evidence of postholes, and rammed earth, or soil.

Postholes:

http://www.wessexarch.co.uk/learnin.../postholes.html

Evidence of ditches and banks of soil:

quote:
This site is particularly significant because of the association of a circular ditched enclosure or ringwork with a contemporary field system, as well as clusters of enclosed and unenclosed circular structures. Two enclosures were formed by rings of pits or large postholes.


http://www.hertfordshire-archaeolog...uk/projects.htm


So we aren't talking about the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus or Skara Brae.

MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

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Macedonia, Greece
Jan 1970
time: 07:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 20:01 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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original story
http://news.independent.co.uk/europ...sp?story=645976

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 20:05
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quote:
Originally posted by General Ludd


Are you sure there would of been "archers" in england at that time? (or just people throwing stuff?)

The simple bow was apparently invented ca 8000 BC.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 21:03
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http://megalith.ru/indexeng.shtml

Link on Russian Dolmen's with map of their locations and pictures of various similiar structures in Europe.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 21:19
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quote:
Originally posted by General Ludd


Are you sure there would of been "archers" in england at that time? (or just people throwing stuff?)


Spear throwers and slingers then. Archery is pretty darn simple and we have evidence of early bronze age people having bows & arrows (ice man from Austria). Sure, this is slightly older but I'd bet bows were there at this time as well.

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
King
USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 21:23
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Yes, but, they didn't have literacy and they did not pass on their culture to future cultures, so they really don't count.


There is evidence of a village having existed at Jericho 9000 years ago.

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 21:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove

There is evidence of a village having existed at Jericho 9000 years ago.

A village with fairly impressive fortifications, no less.

Lancer is offline Lancer
Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 22:27
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Aliens built it.

DerSchwarzfalke is offline DerSchwarzfalke
Chieftain
USA
Jul 2002
time: 00:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 22:29 Visit DerSchwarzfalke's homepage!
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Modern people have a funny way of discounting their own ancestors' ingenuity, I find.

Lancer is offline Lancer
Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 22:31
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Aliens ARE our ancestors...

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 23:36
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quote:
Originally posted by DerSchwarzfalke
Modern people have a funny way of discounting their own ancestors' ingenuity, I find.


There were lots of illiterate people with very complex cultures. We tend to think of ourselves as so superior because of our technology but ancient man was just as thoughtful and creative as we are.

Colon is offline Colon
Emperor
Antwerp, Colon's Chocolate Canard Country
Jan 1970
time: 06:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 23:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Yes, but, they didn't have literacy and they did not pass on their culture to future cultures, so they really don't count.


Neither did the Incas.

Last edited by Colon on 12-06-2005 at 23:45

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
Emperor
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:33
  Old Post 12-06-2005 23:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin


There were lots of illiterate people with very complex cultures. We tend to think of ourselves as so superior because of our technology but ancient man was just as thoughtful and creative as we are.



In many ways, they where even more so.


There isn't always much room for imagination or creativity in this modern world.

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