14-06-2005 20:34									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Once upon a time, most Uni's had ROTC. They were run off campus during the 60's by the left. Now, if the military tres to recruit on campus, the left goes wild and all hell breaks lose, forcing the military back off campus.

This wasn't the case until the military disgraced itself in Vietnam. Now they have done so again with the torture stuff.

Nixon really did in the military's reputation by having the Guard take over campuses, which resulted in the shooting deaths of students on their own campus. Add to that the formerly common practice of placing agents in universities to spy on legitimate academic activities and you can see why there is a general anti-military, anti-government attitude on campus.

A couple of professors at U of T were disgusted to learn a couple of years back that the Canadian government had paid their secretary to spy on them for years during the 70s and 80s.

quote: Now, calling Kennedy a murderer is not an unfair accusation. Neither is calling Clinton a liar, a molester and a rapist, for they are all true.

I take it you've seen that insanely great video where college leftists shouted down Madeleine Albright a few years back. If you think that Clinton is popular on the left, think again.

	14-06-2005 21:04									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi However, I do agree with her and with you, that the only way for liberals to counter her arguments is to throw pies, which should give you a clue right there, that her arguments must have merit.

Actually, Ms. Coulter's arguments have been countered many times by liberals. But they tend to not have the PR skills she does, nor do the pundits engage in quite the rhetorical excesses she does. Hence they aren't as entertaining.

	14-06-2005 21:09									#63
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What, are you saying that Ms. Coulter employs tactics such as bold rhetoric and media pandering disdained by the left?

	14-06-2005 21:12									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi What, are you saying that Ms. Coulter employs tactics such as bold rhetoric and media pandering disdained by the left?

She's a hypocrite.

She goes on about how Liberals are this rich conspiracy, yet she's a rich girl who's never had it hard.

She goes on about traditional marriage and stuff, yet she's never been married and is living in sin with some dude.

She claims that the left engages in ad hominem attacks, and then publishes books that are nothing more than ad hominem attacks. Someone like Al Franken at least has an excuse – he's a comedian.

	14-06-2005 21:17									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi What, are you saying that Ms. Coulter employs tactics such as bold rhetoric and media pandering disdained by the left?

No, I'm saying she engages in hysterical hyperbole that's red meat to the right wing but is, in truth, utterly vacuous. But she's been very skilled at promoting herself (with a healthy amount of assistance from Faux News).

	14-06-2005 21:17									#66
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quote: She claims that the left engages in ad hominem attacks, and then publishes books that are nothing more than ad hominem attacks

quote: She's a hypocrite.

quote: She goes on about traditional marriage and stuff, yet she's never been married and is living in sin with some dude.

Seems she's right. Liberals do love the ad-hominem argument, and cry foul when they find their own tactics used against them.

	14-06-2005 21:19									#67
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BK is just spewing ignorance as usual.

	14-06-2005 21:20									#68
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quote: No, I'm saying she engages in hysterical hyperbole that's red meat to the right wing but is, in truth, utterly vacuous.

Yes, there is substance to what she says, so much so that her style has started to spawn imitators.

	14-06-2005 21:22									#69
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quote: BK is just spewing ignorance as usual.

Ah, such a cogent and constructed refutation. How long did that take Mr. Fun?

	14-06-2005 21:24									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Yes, there is substance to what she says, so much so that her style has started to spawn imitators.

How is spawning imitators (and really, she was just a more extremem imitation of Limbaugh) indicative of substance to her arguments? That's not a logical connection. All it says is she has been successful at self-promotion, which no one has denied.

	14-06-2005 21:34									#71
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You know, I'm a little curious now to find out how many campuses have ROTC. At Purdue there was a pretty strong ROTC that used the old armory. It was more than a little creepy when I walked by the building during target practice. Of course Purdue is certainly more conservative than most campuses. Taking Pol. Sci. courses was definitely interesting.

	14-06-2005 21:35									#72
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How could be something to imitate, if there were no substance behind her commentary? If all there is to Ann Coulter, is self-promotion, than there could be no successful imitators.

	14-06-2005 22:08									#73
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Absolutely nothing wrong with ROTC. In fact many poor students find ROTC grants to be a good way to pay for college.

	14-06-2005 22:08									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Once upon a time, most Uni's had ROTC. They were run off campus during the 60's by the left. Now, if the military tres to recruit on campus, the left goes wild and all hell breaks lose, forcing the military back off campus.

The U.S. military isn't going to bother with universities when it has access to high school kids. The Bushies have forced schools to provide access to military recruiters. Under the No Kids Left Behind law, any school that denies access to recruiters is cut off from federal money. Gives a whole new meaning to the laws name.

So much for freedom eh.

	14-06-2005 22:09									#75
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DP

	14-06-2005 22:10									#76
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I can appreciate some good trolling, but she can't even muster that.

Her work is sloppy and dishonest. I couldn't even get through of her latest because it was filled with nothing but petty insults and vitriol disguised as "wit". She also has some strange fixation with Ted Kennedy. It's no wonder a lot of conservatives are distancing themselves from her. Buckley she is not .

	14-06-2005 22:17									#77
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 Didn't Ann pose for nude photos when she was young? Or am I remembering things wrong?

Most important question of the thread remains unanswered. I'm also curious about this -- but only in the apolitical way.

	14-06-2005 23:16									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi How could be something to imitate, if there were no substance behind her commentary? If all there is to Ann Coulter, is self-promotion, than there could be no successful imitators.

Wrong again. They imitate her style, not her substance. It's not hard to grasp. Plenty of conservative pundits are out there who are no-names but have substance to their arguments (at least relative to Coulter). But not many know who they are, as they are much more.. sedate. But Coulter is a raving nut, and it draws attention, esp. among the raving nuts of the right wing, who buy her books and other stuff like crazy. If it were substance they wanted, they could read George Will. Say "George Will" to most folks, they'll go "who?"

Coulter is primarily an entertainer, and that's why she's popular. Saying her popularity denotes substance is as logically stupid as saying Tom Cruise's popularity denotes he's a profound actor of enormous skill.

By your logic, you'd also have to believe that Michael Moore must be correct and substantive, given the shrillness of attacks on him from the Right.

	14-06-2005 23:23									#79
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Sure, there's"substance" behind Coulter's writing.

Like, yes, I suppose the TSA is all crap. I think so, most people think so. And Norman Mineta might not be the best Secretary of Transportation we have.

But then Ann goes above and beyond the call of decent criticism, and hysterically criticizes him in a manner befitting lunacy (in the book Treason, iirc, which is rather Slander-ous), by claiming that being a Democrat and being Japanese are bad.

While I don't take offence to the Democrat thing, deliberately linking him to the Bataan Death March, when he himself suffered through the Internment Camps...

===

Well, frankly, anybody who echoes Coulter's words in an approving way lowers themselves in my esteem.

	14-06-2005 23:25									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Absolutely nothing wrong with ROTC. In fact many poor students find ROTC grants to be a good way to pay for college.

And that invites a number of obvious responses....

	14-06-2005 23:27									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai The U.S. military isn't going to bother with universities when it has access to high school kids. The Bushies have forced schools to provide access to military recruiters. Under the No Kids Left Behind law, any school that denies access to recruiters is cut off from federal money. Gives a whole new meaning to the laws name. So much for freedom eh.

Anyone remember that scene in Fahrenheit 911 where Moore asks those high school kids what they think of the busted up buildings and general wreckage in Iraq and one of them remarks that it looks a lot like Flint.

	15-06-2005 00:16									#82
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quote: Wrong again. They imitate her style, not her substance.

That's a good point, and I was waiting for you to put that up.

quote: Plenty of conservative pundits are out there who are no-names but have substance to their arguments (at least relative to Coulter). But not many know who they are, as they are much more.. sedate. But Coulter is a raving nut, and it draws attention, esp. among the raving nuts of the right wing, who buy her books and other stuff like crazy. If it were substance they wanted, they could read George Will. Say "George Will" to most folks, they'll go "who?"

Agreed. The tradition among conservative pundits is to favour the bland over the vitriolic. However, when Ann says the same thing in a different way, I am forced to consider the rationale behind her different style.

She uses this style, both because it seems to be what she prefers, and because of the effect that it has on her opponents. They are too busy reacting to the way she writes, that they ignore what she writes about.

quote: Coulter is primarily an entertainer, and that's why she's popular. Saying her popularity denotes substance is as logically stupid as saying Tom Cruise's popularity denotes he's a profound actor of enormous skill.

First of all, how is Ms. Coulter popular? I would say she is very provocative, rather than popular, she sells books because a subset of people buy them. Overall, I would say she is very unpopular.

quote: By your logic, you'd also have to believe that Michael Moore must be correct and substantive, given the shrillness of attacks on him from the Right.

That's a good point. Where have conservatives pied Michael Moore? They have written up reviews of Fahrenheit 9-11 going over each point that Michael Moore has made, and showing why is wrong.

They don't say that he's 'shacking up with another man' as Agathon did in this thread, do they?

	15-06-2005 00:19									#83
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Ben, nobody pies Michael Moore because of the simple fact that Micahel Moore would swallow those pies whole.

He's fat enough that it wouldn't add to his weight, and his mouth is big enough he wouldn't even have to stretch.

	15-06-2005 00:25									#84
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quote: They don't say that he's 'shacking up with another man' as Agathon did in this thread, do they?

He wouldn't. He's intensely religious IIRC. In any case he doesn't go around squealing about the decline of family values and the evils of unmarried women not knowing their place in the world.

	15-06-2005 01:46									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner Most important question of the thread remains unanswered. I'm also curious about this -- but only in the apolitical way.

Try this site

	15-06-2005 06:48									#86
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Finally, an answer to the question...thank you.

D'oh!!!!!!!!


Okay, then. Check this Ann Coulter website

	15-06-2005 17:09									#87
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"Strap on veterans for Truth"

	15-06-2005 20:33									#88
	Remove this text

The only question remaining is who'd hit it?

	15-06-2005 20:38									#89
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Gimme a bat. I will.

	15-06-2005 21:42									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Agreed. The tradition among conservative pundits is to favour the bland over the vitriolic.

A tradition already broken by Limbaugh and O'Reilly long before Coulter came along, I'll add.

quote: She uses this style, both because it seems to be what she prefers, and because of the effect that it has on her opponents. They are too busy reacting to the way she writes, that they ignore what she writes about.

Precisely. Why does she want them to ignore what she writes about? Because it's ultimately insubstantive.

And plenty of liberals have taken her to task for her factual distortions and errors:

http://www.anncoulter.blogspot.com/
http://slannder.homestead.com/files/slanndermain.html
http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20020713.html (actually a nonpartisan site that slams her book)
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/08/26/F...rampled_u.shtml
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?...0923&s=alterman (The Nation is a great source for factual rebuttals of Coulter's nonsense)
http://cjr.org/issues/2002/6/slander-scherer.asp (Columbia Journalism Review tears it apart).

So much for your assertion that liberals haven't responded by taking down her "facts."

quote: First of all, how is Ms. Coulter popular? I would say she is very provocative, rather than popular, she sells books because a subset of people buy them. Overall, I would say she is very unpopular.

How is she popular? Gee, I'd guess having numerous best-selling books would indicate she's popular with somebody. Unless you think the majority of people buying her books hate her and just want to feel enraged? I doubt that. I've never felt the urge to buy a book by someone I dislike.

Being "popular" doesn't necessitate being loved by 51% of the general population. It just means one has a large enough following to sustain a highly public image and to peddle one's wares to a significant number of people. I'll use Tom Cruise again as an example: I'd wager that fewer than 50% of the population cares for him as an actor, but he has enough fans to keep a good career going. Likewise, Coulter has folks like you and Ned to keep her aloft.

quote: That's a good point. Where have conservatives pied Michael Moore? They have written up reviews of Fahrenheit 9-11 going over each point that Michael Moore has made, and showing why is wrong. They don't say that he's 'shacking up with another man' as Agathon did in this thread, do they?

Are you seriously going to claim that rightwingers don't attack Moore with vitriol and personal denegrations? I'll give you a chance to reconsider this position before I flood you with choice quotes and attacks made against Moore. We can start with this conservative radio host who threatened to kill Moore.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/19/41451/3148

Hey, a lovely right-winger on this site says he'll "spit tobacco in his face" if he is given the chance:

http://rightthinkinggirl.typepad.co...el_moore_o.html

I guarantee there are far more hateful attacks against Moore than claims he is shacking up with someone outside of marriage (which, incidently, is absolutely true wrt Coulter, since she has lived with men out of wedlock. I don't care, but it just further shows she's a hypocrite).