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McMeadows is offline McMeadows
King
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Mar 1999
time: 06:33
  Old Post 14-06-2005 02:33 Visit McMeadows's homepage!
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Report 1475bc - Proposal 1450bc Increase Your PM Length

Actions taken in 1475BC

- new city founded: Rhotsson Andy (hope I remembered right, otherwise it'll be corrected).

- worker Rhoth: continued mining grassland
- worker McM: started chopping fur forest
- worker Platy: started chopping forest
- worker Wittlich: sterted roading BRG
- worker snoopy369: finished roading BG

- Stack of Doom still fortified on mountain without damage (healed)

- swordsman John Lennon 4/4 moved 332 onto hill between AbbA and U2

- AbbA: build changed to settler in 3. (f16/20 +2; s12/30 +6)
- U2: swordsman in 1. (f2/20 +2; s26/30 +5)
- Nirvana: swordsman in 4. (f9/20 +3; s20/30 +3)
- Metallica: spearman in 10. (14/20 +2; s0/20 +2)
- BC-52's: build changed to granary in 11. (f2/20 +3; s7/60 +5)
- Beach Boys: catapult in 1. (f2/20 +0; s15/20 +5)
- Rhotsson Andy: catapult in 20. (f0/20 +2; s0/20 +1)


Construction in 2 turns @ 70% science
10% luxuries (I'm replaying for reporting purposes and now see I could have reduced the lux slider..!)
0 gpt with 7 gold in treasure @ 20% taxes

Diplomacy:
- contact with BOH on DR-war.
- Babs have contacted us on monarchy and DR-war.


Remarks
- Total War Balance: lost 4 archers, 1 spearman & 1 warrior vs eliminated 3 horsemen and 1 warrior = 110 shields lost vs 100 shields.
- We are still AVERAGE towards DR and AVERAGE to BOH!
[b]- The DR stack on the mountain has grown to 5 veteran immortals, 4 regular immortals, 2 veteran spearmen, 1 regular spearman, and 3 workers.


Proposal for actions in 1450 BC
- discuss

Attachment: map - 1475 bc.jpg
This has been downloaded 32 time(s).

Rhothaerill is offline Rhothaerill

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Feb 2003
time: 21:33
  Old Post 14-06-2005 02:41
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Re: Report 1475bc - Proposal 1450bc Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by McMeadows
- new city founded: Rhotsson Andy (hope I remembered right, otherwise it'll be corrected).


Thanks. The only thing I ask is that it be changed to 'Rhothsson" instead of "Rhotsson" if you play next turn too. Otherwise I'll do it.

McMeadows is offline McMeadows
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Mar 1999
time: 06:33
  Old Post 14-06-2005 03:10 Visit McMeadows's homepage!
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

why is that 2nd "h" important? I always abbr. you to Rhot... Hope I'm not insulting you...

Rhothaerill is offline Rhothaerill

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  Old Post 14-06-2005 03:17
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No you're not insulting me. I just think Rhoth flows better than Rhot (sounds like decay ), and Rhoth is what most people call me online.

Platypus Rex is offline Platypus Rex

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Sep 2002
time: 21:33
  Old Post 14-06-2005 11:31 Visit Platypus Rex<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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shouldn't unit support be hurt'n DR ?

McMeadows is offline McMeadows
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  Old Post 14-06-2005 11:32 Visit McMeadows's homepage!
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The second "h" takes away a bit of the power to the word...

Rhothaerill is offline Rhothaerill

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  Old Post 14-06-2005 21:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Platypus Rex
shouldn't unit support be hurt'n DR ?


Unlikely. They may have a few more units than us because of the regulars vs veterans, but it won't be that much. I'd guess that their unit support is minimal. It just means they research a little slower anyway.

McMeadows is offline McMeadows
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  Old Post 15-06-2005 01:56 Visit McMeadows's homepage!
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DR:
5 vet, 4 reg immortals
2 vet , 1 reg spearmen
1 cat

EU:
1 elite, 1 vet horsemen
4 vet spearmen
10 vet swordsmen

What are actually our chances if we do attack? With 10 attack we're closing in om the RNG-average. After their 2 vet spearmen I assume their immortals will take the damage... In the end those immortals are rather worse in defense than in offense.. I'm also curious on what the chances are when we are attacked...

Rhothaerill is offline Rhothaerill

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  Old Post 15-06-2005 02:23
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If we attack while they're fortified on that mountain then our chances are bad. Attack strength 3 against defense strength 5. The trick will be to get them off that mountain. If they don't budge after BOH attacks them then we should stick around and continue to hold them. If they move some or most of our own units toward BOH then we should start moving again (on the hills and mountains) to continue our own strike against them. The trick against immortals is always to get them on the defensive instead of attacking you.

That was Vox's mistake during the GS war before I joined. The members of Vox at the time kept putting themselves in position to only defend not attack and GS made them pay for it.

snoopy369 is offline snoopy369

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Apr 2004
time: 23:33
  Old Post 15-06-2005 03:25
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Agree totally with your statement Rhoth ... let's keep them on the defensive but not actually attack, if we can. I'm sure they'll retreat once they see Sidon under attack - and we can follow.

I vote that if they reduce the Immortal portion of the stack to anything under 5, we should go for the city. 4 spearmen should be enough to survive at least four immortals without taking any (significant) damage to the sword stack if we're on a hill (1 from the current location, and then 2, and then to whichever city we feel like going to), and we'd still have 8+ swords to attack the city - and they'd be off of the mountain.

snoopy369 is offline snoopy369

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  Old Post 15-06-2005 03:27
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Secondly, just want to make a point that is probably obvious, but to make sure --

The elite horseman needs to be used at the optimal time, attacking (optimally) a hale 1 defense unit (a warrior or a horseman) or a damaged 2 defense unit, or on plains a hale veteran 2 defense unit is acceptable. We need to really try and get a MGL out of it ... we are military after all, and thus need to take advantage of our trait.

Rhothaerill is offline Rhothaerill

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  Old Post 15-06-2005 03:37
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Yes definitely. An army would be great. Depending on what happens with DR (whether we need a sword army or not) it would be great if we could get the MGL, make an army, and then hang on to it for a while until we get riders. A rider army is a nice thing.

snoopy369 is offline snoopy369

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  Old Post 15-06-2005 03:40
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I opened the save, but didn't move anything as i'm not confident I could manage the MMing that rhoth is doing.

Basically nothing happened - same exact stack is there, and no (unhealed) damage to our troops.

However, now everyone in the world - except BoH - has the same tech as us minus literature... including DR. I'm guessing Babylon received CoL for Monarchy. At this point, i think the Bab deal is fine - maybe ask them to throw in monarchy, in case we feel like building the hanging gardens or something silly like that - but they're not getting a huge extra, and we don't even have to throw in literature (as it's not required for era advance).

Thoughts?? I suggest - and presume - we keep the stack in place for this turn, waiting until we see a change from DR to move it ...

snoopy369 is offline snoopy369

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  Old Post 15-06-2005 03:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Rhothaerill
Yes definitely. An army would be great. Depending on what happens with DR (whether we need a sword army or not) it would be great if we could get the MGL, make an army, and then hang on to it for a while until we get riders. A rider army is a nice thing.


rider army indeed...

Get on MSN so we can discuss the save

Rhothaerill is offline Rhothaerill

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  Old Post 15-06-2005 03:51
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I'd love to have a rider army. 4 move unit with blitz and an effective 6 attack I believe.

Sorry, still at work for another hour or so. Then dinner when I get home. I'll probably be able to get on and play the save in about 2 1/2 hours at the earliest.

snoopy369 is offline snoopy369

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  Old Post 15-06-2005 03:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Rhothaerill
I'd love to have a rider army. 4 move unit with blitz and an effective 6 attack I believe.

Sorry, still at work for another hour or so. Then dinner when I get home. I'll probably be able to get on and play the save in about 2 1/2 hours at the earliest.


Yes ... scary But we'll have plenty of them, I suspect.

2. 1/2 hours sounds fine. I'll play GW until 8:30 or so (central time).

McMeadows is offline McMeadows
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  Old Post 15-06-2005 11:03 Visit McMeadows's homepage!
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I'm still waiting for an actual answer to what the chances are. My "feeling" is it is bad as well, but I don't wanna read to have lost half of the stack by a DR attack, with little damage to them, as I do understand they're way better at offense. So can anyone provide me with some numbers?

Rhothaerill is offline Rhothaerill

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  Old Post 15-06-2005 20:50
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I have no idea what the chances are. I don't usually do calculations like that. I only know that attacking them on the mountain we only have a 3 in 8 chance of damaging them. Them attacking us is a 4 in 9 chance.

snoopy369 is offline snoopy369

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  Old Post 16-06-2005 08:19
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Hmm.

They have: 9 Immortals, 4 regular 5 veteran.
We have: 10 swords, 4 spear (all vet).

On average, immortals will lose 5 hp for each 4 hp spearman or sworsdman. They have 4*3+5*4 or 32 HP total; so they will, on average, kill 6.5 units of ours in exchange for their 9 units. (Although we'd actually not lose these units, on average - we'd on average lose almost nothing, because we'd put up a fresh new unit each time we won; my guess is that we'd lose 3 units or so.)

I'm not sure what the 'range' (standard deviation) of civ random numbers is [if it is a standard bell curve or if there is some concentration or dispersal] ... Assuming that civ essentially rolls 1d5 for us and 1d4 for the immortal and compares the values, and the random numbers are normally distributed (and assuming I remember my stat):

Mean score for us: 2.5
Mean score for immortal: 2
SD for us: about 1.2
SD for them: about .95
68% score for us: between 1.3 and 3.7 [68% of our rolls will fall here]
68% score for them: between 1.05 and 2.95

We would probably lose about 70% of the battles if we got the absolute worst reasonable luck - if we consistently rolled near the bottom of the 68% range - but our mean score is near the top of their 68% range, probably about [34%+16%+20%]=70% of their rolls will be below our mean [50%]. (If it's a standard distribution, and not a flat distribution.)

--

If it's a flat distribution (even chance of getting any given roll, from 0.05 to 4.95), then we have a slightly lower chance to win (as Rhoth says, 55% to 44%). That would mean our potential risk is greater, ie we COULD get horrible luck and lose totally - but we probably won't, on balance, and just as likely could win totally and not lose a unit.

As I said tho, it's been a while since stat for me.

Rhothaerill is offline Rhothaerill

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  Old Post 16-06-2005 08:27
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Got spare money?

Heh, I was never much for hard stats. I prefer to go by feel, and my gut tells me we'd lose a bunch of units on the attack, but they'd lose a bunch the same way if they attack us on the mountain.

McMeadows is offline McMeadows
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  Old Post 16-06-2005 13:48 Visit McMeadows's homepage!
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Hmm, the numbers don't really say much aren't they. We could lose all, we could lose nothing... I'll stick with the gut. If the war is over, I might replay a few saves to have a look at the outcome...

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