14-06-2005 20:41									#1
	Under Seige Redux Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Under Seige Redux
------------------

Come one and come all, I have started this thread to help collect information for the revamping of the classic game "Under Seige" by Insurgent. This game was without a doubt ahead of its time with the event files and such. It has since however become somewhat dated graphically speaking and is in need of an update. Sicne I've seen a great deal of interest in this project this will become my top priority for now ahead of "Verne" and "The Emerald Wars".

What I intend to do with the help of any interested volunteers is not only update every graphic file (units, icons, terrain, people, cities) but also implement the playtesters suggestions intended for an updated version of the game. My speciality is graphics and that is what I will focus on first, begining with the units file.

If there are any suggestions out there for units that might fit this project please don't hesitate to post on this thread, the more units we have to choose from the better the odds that this game will come out looking fantastic. Also, if Insurgent is somewhere out there reading this I would love to get your insight on this project.

Last edited by Sarsstock on 14-06-2005 at 20:56

	14-06-2005 20:45									#2
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Here's where you can download the classic version of the scenario over at CFC.

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ2/dow...narios/modern1/

Now the first aspect of this game I want to try to tackle is the unit.gif, posted below. As I said I would love to see any unit sets that users might think usefull for this project.

Attachment: under seige units.gif
This has been downloaded 165 time(s).

	14-06-2005 20:54									#3
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This is the style of units that I hope to use for this Redux, Fairline's, Curt's and Typhoon's latest generation such as the ones found in Dictator ToT and such. What I'm hoping for more than anything else is a sense of uniform consistency in the graphics, where all the units match one another in terms of style and such.

Here is an example of the kind of upgrade I've made so far. I've tried to keep the physical units being upgraded as consistant as possible.

Attachment: unit update.gif
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	14-06-2005 21:03									#4
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I recall that before the crash of '05 Curt had posted a unitset of amazing looking new generation fairline style armored units over on Steph's "Oktyabr" thread that might just fit this project perfectly. Did anyone download those units before the crash?

I also remember Steph posted some amazing looking modern naval warships on that same thread.

	14-06-2005 21:07									#5
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dp

Last edited by Leonidas on 14-06-2005 at 21:40

	14-06-2005 21:10									#6
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dp

Last edited by Leonidas on 14-06-2005 at 21:41

	14-06-2005 21:32									#7
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The Air Superiority flag is no error - It is a fix to thwart the CIV2 unit
building bug that sometimes prevents the AI from building their units.

I use it and the armour works as normal...

More details on the unit bug here:

http://sleague.apolyton.net/Guides/sldt_useunits.shtml

	14-06-2005 22:07									#8
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Hmm, this is a great idea.
I guess most of the units already are done, somebody just need to dig 'em up.

	14-06-2005 22:22									#9
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You nailed it on the head Martin! Its just a matter of cutting and pasting the proper units, icons, cities and other graphics.

Anyways here is a proposal of mine for the Israeli/Palestinian cities. These are only a rough draft for now, if anybody has any input on how they might be made to look more apropriate please let me know.

Attachment: proposed cities.gif
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	14-06-2005 22:23									#10
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In addition to the cities, these are the working flags that will represent the respective civs. Its a style of flags Tom used in his Redux of Brown Man's Burden.

Attachment: flagset.gif
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	14-06-2005 22:42									#11
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btr-50 and some new t-64's

Attachment: btr-50-t64.gif
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	14-06-2005 22:49									#12
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This is looking interesting!

	14-06-2005 22:49									#13
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I can't say I enjoyed these scenarios - there was a great deal of potential but they were just ridiculously unbalanced - I think in the 1967 war scenario I had conquered all of Egypt and Jordan by turn 2.

I don't think these scenarios can be improved sufficiently - they need a complete redesign right from scratch. I felt that there were too many cities in the scenario for one - the map was cluttered. Considering the short time span the player should not have been able to build units in their cities, or anything but the most basic of improvements e.g. sandbags for city walls, field hospital for barracks. Units were completely imbalanced, moreso in favour of Israel.

Oh well, just my tuppence. Good luck with the project. If you're looking for any help, I designed a version of the 1947 war scenario which combined elements of Insurgent's work and the Exodus scenario for my own amusement. I'll be honest - it's nothing short of plagiarism; nothing in it is really my own work which is the reason I never released it to the community. If you want to take a look at it though in case it might give you some inspiration. I never finished it off fully though (90% done).

	14-06-2005 23:43									#14
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Well Our_Man, there were always complaints as I recall that this game was a tad unbalanced in certain aspects. I would have to say that since we're in the process of updating it now that NOW would be the time to correct any inbalance. If you have any suggestions please feel free to put them forward and well see how they can be implemented.

	14-06-2005 23:43									#15
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Always suspected that this may come in handy someday.

Attachment: middleeastarmour.gif
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	14-06-2005 23:46									#16
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Yes... yes... and did I mention YES that will come in handy Typhoon!! Those will definatly have a place in this project. The desert camo is just perfect for the various conflicts.

Say Curt, as you've shown interest in this project might you remember what became of those new generation fairline style tank units you posted on Steph's Oktyabr thread?

	15-06-2005 00:37									#17
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No need to worry Curt, Typhoon just gave me the units in question. I've attatchem them below in the event they might help some other designers out there.

Now my next search is for the modern looking warships that Steph had posted in the Oktyabr thread. Once again, did anyone per chance download these graphics before the crash?

Attachment: jim-tanks2.gif
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	15-06-2005 11:10									#18
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My god, look at my craptastic B-57 and A-10. My T-64 isn't looking all that hot anymore either. I am still proud of my Centurian though by god.

@ Typhoon: awesome units there man

	15-06-2005 11:25									#19
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I was just thinking, didn't the Isrealis use upgraded super shermans. Would these be any differant graphically speaking from the sherman that Ty posted. Also was the super sherman a upgunned, uparmored version of the M4A3E8 Sherman used in Korea.

	15-06-2005 13:42									#20
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Sure *someone* has them

[(Escort) Frigate, Guided Missile Cruiser, (USN) AEGIS Cruiser, Submarine, Carrier, (USN) Fleet Carrier]

Here you go, Chris

Attachment: naval units.gif
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	15-06-2005 15:30									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Jimmywax @ Typhoon: awesome units there man

Thank you, but credit should go to fairline, Steph and Catfish, since the actual units and most of the colouring are the results of their efforts. This is merely a small compilation of their work, and I had little to do with it aside from some minor tweaking.

BTW, amazing ships Steph.

quote: Originally posted by Jimmywax I am still proud of my Centurian though by god.

And rightly so

quote: I was just thinking, didn't the Isrealis use upgraded super shermans. Would these be any differant graphically speaking from the sherman that Ty posted. Also was the super sherman a upgunned, uparmored version of the M4A3E8 Sherman used in Korea.

Yup- the Israelis operated several different variants of the Sherman for the better part of four decades- base M4A1, A3, and A4s, French upgraded M-1s, and the indigenous M50 Super Sherman and the M51 ISherman.

The M50s were apparently M4A3s and M4A4s upgunnned with French 75mms.

An excellent source of info on the topic here.

Here's a crappy example for illustration. Its modified from the Sherman in the compo, which itself is a recoloured Sherman Firefly by fairline (it was extremely wrong of me to do that, but there was nothing else availabe at the time.)

	15-06-2005 20:29									#22
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Well here are three new additions to the unit family. A camel rider, a new version of the "Obselete" fighter and an Arab Horseman. If anyone has any thoughts and comments on these please feel free to let them be known. I wonder, does anybody out there have a fairline style image of a camel standing upright? If so then I could potentially mount the camel rider ontop of the camel.... just an idea.

Attachment: new additions.gif
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Last edited by Sarsstock on 15-06-2005 at 20:36

	15-06-2005 20:39									#23
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Now here's the very secret I've been dying to learn for a little more than a year. I was wondering if anybody out there, from Curt to Gareth to Tom or Typhoon could possibly tell what colouring technique is used to turn Tank A into Tank B as shown below.

I've tried and failed many a time to duplicate this recolouring effect, but if I could learn it for this project it would go a long way to making the units look uniformily consistant.

	15-06-2005 20:40									#24
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*edit*

Tank A & Tank B.

Attachment: tank a & b.png
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	15-06-2005 21:16									#25
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i only managed to do that once,
and i basicly followed the colour of another tank closely,
i used that method for the ram-1
it seemed to have worked,
another mothod i have tried is carefully recolouring the tank with darker shades, i used that method for darkening a t-72,
i always use another tank as a reference for colouring, i find it is easier that way,
edit: i seemed to have posted the wrong original ram tank, but you can pretty m,uch see how i recoloured it anyways so it doesn't matter,

Attachment: clrtchnk.gif
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	15-06-2005 23:11									#26
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Well the technique seems to work really well for the older era tanks Erika, but it doesn't seem to produce the same results for the later tanks such as the T-64.

Do you or anybody else know of a similar technique that can do the same for the modern era armored vehicles as it does for the WW2 era tanks? If not then I will try to implement this one. Thank you in any case.

	16-06-2005 00:06									#27
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Also, what does everybody think of the Israeli city style I suggested higher up the thread? Do they look too european and in need of a middle eastern touch?

	17-06-2005 00:36									#28
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Say, I have a question for the forum. I've gotten the impression from some conversations as of late that there might not be as much interest in this project as I had previously imagined.

So I want to know flat out, if there was indeed a graphical update of "Under Seige", would you want to play it or would you be no more inclined to play it than you were before?

	17-06-2005 01:05									#29
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I've no real interest in just a graphical update. For reasons I've already mentioned above, I feel that the scenarios are fundamentally unplayable and while a graphical update might make it look prettier, it still wouldn't be fun to play. Major work would need to be done to make it work.

TBH, I'm more interested in the World of Jules Verne.

	18-06-2005 00:35									#30
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If you're still looking for $0.02, then I'd have to admit that I'd prefer to play Mr. Verne rather this remake as well. However, work on the one that's more fun for you.