16-06-2005 23:01									#31
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quote: that if they can prove sexual orientation is a choice, then gays are not entitled to equal rights.

You already have the ability to practice your sexuality in the manner of your choosing, with the sole restriction that you do not do so in public. And even that restriction has loopholes, like during your pride parades.

You should adopt 'truth in advertising' and call them sexual freedom parades, which is really all they are anyways.

	17-06-2005 02:17									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi You already have the ability to practice your sexuality in the manner of your choosing, with the sole restriction that you do not do so in public. And even that restriction has loopholes, like during your pride parades. You should adopt 'truth in advertising' and call them sexual freedom parades, which is really all they are anyways.

That's not a very good argument. Why can religion be displayed in public, but your sexuality can't?

	17-06-2005 02:25									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi You already have the ability to practice your sexuality in the manner of your choosing, with the sole restriction that you do not do so in public. And even that restriction has loopholes, like during your pride parades. You should adopt 'truth in advertising' and call them sexual freedom parades, which is really all they are anyways.

Isn't it your position that Mr. Fun's practicing of his sexuality at all is a sin and an affront to God? Well, practicing religion is a sin and an affront to the Chinese government.

	17-06-2005 03:04									#34
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Comparing the CCP with God

	17-06-2005 03:25									#35
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I don't think anyone has gotten my argument correct.

	17-06-2005 04:16									#36
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun I don't think anyone has gotten my argument correct.

I don't think anyone cares about your argument.

	17-06-2005 04:23									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki Isn't it your position that Mr. Fun's practicing of his sexuality at all is a sin and an affront to God? Well, practicing religion is a sin and an affront to the Chinese government.

Yeah, but Ben doesn't want to go around to MrFun's house and interrupt his nookie.

	17-06-2005 04:28									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi You already have the ability to practice your sexuality in the manner of your choosing, with the sole restriction that you do not do so in public. And even that restriction has loopholes, like during your pride parades. You should adopt 'truth in advertising' and call them sexual freedom parades, which is really all they are anyways.

I know why Boris and others get a migraine whenever they TRY to debate with you. You seem to have this undying habit of distorting other people's arguments.


My point was not that gays are denied a right to pratice sex in public places. You already know what the point of my statement was, you just want to dodge it.

Why aren't you a politician??

	17-06-2005 04:43									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Yeah, but Ben doesn't want to go around to MrFun's house and interrupt his nookie.

I don't know about that. Ben seemed to disapprove when the SCOTUS struck down sodomy laws. So that would indicate he does want to go into people's houses and interrupt their nookie.

	17-06-2005 04:47									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I don't know about that. Ben seemed to disapprove when the SCOTUS struck down sodomy laws. So that would indicate he does want to go into people's houses and interrupt their nookie.

10 bucks says that half the cops would offer to join in.

	17-06-2005 05:11									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Nuclear That's not a very good argument. Why can religion be displayed in public, but your sexuality can't?

Last time I checked sexuality is displayed in public hence the scantly dressed pop stars such as madonna christina agulara and the spears *****. Its the acts them selves such as intercourse that are not allowed.
And further more last time i checked i havent heard of a relegion that has to people screwing in public. How these two topics sex and relegion in public can be compared is beyond me

	17-06-2005 05:18									#42
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quote: That's not a very good argument. Why can religion be displayed in public, but your sexuality can't?

Read again. I said 'practiced' not displayed. The quote is even in your own post.

	17-06-2005 05:19									#43
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quote: Isn't it your position that Mr. Fun's practicing of his sexuality at all is a sin and an affront to God? Well, practicing religion is a sin and an affront to the Chinese government.

True, but then I do not equate God with the government.

	17-06-2005 05:21									#44
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quote: My point was not that gays are denied a right to pratice sex in public places. You already know what the point of my statement was, you just want to dodge it.

Equal rights is a nebulous concept. Unless you refine it, it is hard for me to figure out what you mean by 'equal rights'. Given the context of the thread I assumed you were equating religious freedom to what you believe to be sexual freedom.

	17-06-2005 05:24									#45
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quote: I don't know about that. Ben seemed to disapprove when the SCOTUS struck down sodomy laws. So that would indicate he does want to go into people's houses and interrupt their nookie.

'Seemed to disapprove'? Nope. I said that if something is a law it ought to be enforced. Sodomy restrictions cannot be enforced, therefore they ought to be repealed.

If you really wanted to you can dig up a thread where I make that precise argument.

I really don't want to interrupt Mr. Fun's nookie. I like to keep my food down rather than tasting it again.

	17-06-2005 05:27									#46
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quote: I really don't want to interrupt Mr. Fun's nookie. I like to keep my food down rather than tasting it again.

Are you prejudiced against vomit-perverts, Ben?

	17-06-2005 05:27									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Read again. I said 'practiced' not displayed. The quote is even in your own post.

Hairsplitting. Your complaint against China is that they're preventing the practice of religion, even people's own homes. So would you think it equally wrong that the government go after people practicing sex?

Plus you mentioned the pride parades. Having been to several, I've not once seen a sex "practice" at one, just people overtly affirming their sexual orientation. Now, I grant that a few miscreants may engage in inappropriate behavior, but they are neither sanctioned nor remotely typical of the parades.

	17-06-2005 05:29									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi If you really wanted to you can dig up a thread where I make that precise argument.

I can dig up threads where you make a lot of arguments, often contradictory. So?

	17-06-2005 05:34									#49
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quote: Your complaint against China is that they're preventing the practice of religion, even people's own homes. So would you think it equally wrong that the government go after people practicing sex?

In their own homes? Sure, even in the case of sodomy.

quote: Plus you mentioned the pride parades. Having been to several, I've not once seen a sex "practice" at one, just people overtly affirming their sexual orientation. Now, I grant that a few miscreants may engage in inappropriate behavior, but they are neither sanctioned nor remotely typical of the parades.

'remotely typical'?

I've only been to one, and that was enough for me. The very fact that they do happen, and are not prosecuted, sends a message that sex in public is okay. Which is why these are more sexual freedom parades than gay pride parades, especially when Paris Hilton leads one.

	17-06-2005 05:38									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Equal rights is a nebulous concept. Unless you refine it, it is hard for me to figure out what you mean by 'equal rights'. Given the context of the thread I assumed you were equating religious freedom to what you believe to be sexual freedom.

Since when does "right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" need explicit clarification? What part of that statement do you not understand?

My point is that even one could prove that sexual orientation is a choice, this would still not be justifiable grounds to deny gays their innate right to be happy. Every person is entitled to their pursuit of happiness when it does not deny other people's rights and is within the confines of justifiable, fair laws.

Thus, I was attacking the irrational notion that religious right-wing homophobes have, that if they can prove sexual orientation is a choice, they can legitimately deny gays their right to their pursuit of happiness.


If you don't get the point with this post, I will have to get my bottle of Tylenol out.

	17-06-2005 06:30									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Good for you, Scalia.

That's you agreeing with Scalia's dissent against repeal of the sodomy laws. You then go on for several pages arguing that the court was wrong to strike down the laws (displaying incredible ignorance about the American legal system in the process, too!). Nothing there about your "enforcement" claim.

Hey, religious meetings in China are against the law. Since that's the law, don't you think it ought to be enforced?

So should I just chalk this up to your usual "forgetfulness?"

I love how later in the same thread you say that women shouldn't be allowed to have birth control unless their husband consents. How very medieval of you!

BTW, suppose laws against Sodomy were enforceable. What would you say, then?

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi 'remotely typical'? I've only been to one, and that was enough for me. The very fact that they do happen, and are not prosecuted, sends a message that sex in public is okay. Which is why these are more sexual freedom parades than gay pride parades, especially when Paris Hilton leads one.

I've been to a half dozen, and in places like NYC, no less. Never saw a single sexual act being performed in public during that time. So your unfounded stereotype based on your sole experience just doesn't hold water next to my expertise.

The vast majority of participants in gay pride parades could be marching in any parade. Marching bands, people in shorts and t-shirts, politicians, groups like firemen, police, etc. OH BUT TEH FOX NEWS SHOWED THE ONE DOOD IN NOTHING BUT A FEATHER BOA AND SPEEDOS, THAT MUST BE WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT! Please.

	17-06-2005 06:32									#52
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Yeah -- I doubt the straight parents and friends of PFLAG who participate in the parade, would engage in public sex during such a parade.

	17-06-2005 08:49									#53
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The full quote is

quote: quote: But it is the premise of our system that those judgments are to be made by the people, and not imposed by a governing caste that knows best. Good for you, Scalia. Now defenders of democracies are swine Boris?

and later

quote: quote: Defending democracy equates to defending the Christian caste that does govern the US government? elected Christian caste. Let the legislature change the laws. Let the judiciary uphold the laws.

	17-06-2005 08:53									#54
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Thanks, but that doesn't in any way change my point that BK was disapproving of the SCOTUS ruling.

Furthermore, his equivocation that he only doesn't want the law because it's "unenforceable" indicated that, were it enforceable, he'd not have a problem with it.

	17-06-2005 09:00									#55
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Exactly -- such frivulous, petty things like right to privacy pales in comparison to the importance of keeping gays from destroying families.

	17-06-2005 09:11									#56
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The Constitutional "right to privacy" involves the legality of evidence collected by intrusive means: hearsay, electronic eavesdropping, certain forms of interrogation, etc. It has nothing to do with abortion or sexual practices, and the SCOTUS extrapolating from the sphere of legal protections to such public policies is weak. Even Ruthy baby says so but declines to say that the SCOTUS should reverse itself.

	17-06-2005 09:25									#57
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Thanks for your opinion, but that's, um, utterly irrelevant to the matter at hand and what's being discussed here. But good effort!

	17-06-2005 09:31									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Straybow The Constitutional "right to privacy" involves the legality of evidence collected by intrusive means: hearsay, electronic eavesdropping, certain forms of interrogation, etc. It has nothing to do with abortion or sexual practices, and the SCOTUS extrapolating from the sphere of legal protections to such public policies is weak. Even Ruthy baby says so but declines to say that the SCOTUS should reverse itself.

Right -- the purpose of sodomy laws were enacted as a means to gather intelligence rather than legislating religious morality.

come on, Straybow

	17-06-2005 09:31									#59
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun There is NOTHING prudent about persecuting a religious group.

People's Temple
Heaven's Gate
Branch Davidian
Solar Temple
Aum Shinrikyo

You want me to list more?

	17-06-2005 09:32									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger People's Temple Heaven's Gate Branch Davidian Solar Temple Aum Shinrikyo You want me to list more?

I'm referring to religions whose pratices are within the confines of justifiable, fair laws that allow for legitimate expression of religion.