16-06-2005 04:28									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker The fans don't define canon. I believe Lucasarts or whoever declared the EU canon.

Indeed... on the subject on Palpatine:

http://www.starwars.com/databank/ch...alpatine/?id=eu

quote: At the Battle of Endor, Palpatine found himself facing death yet again. Betrayed by Vader, Palpatine's body was destroyed aboard the second Death Star. Separated from his clones, Palpatine was forced to survive in the maddening, bodiless existence of the void. Through sheer will he retained his identity, crossing the gulf of space to again take residence in his clone body. He barely survived Darth Vader's treachery. Palpatine remained sequestered at Byss while he rebuilt his strength, and his Empire.

It's merely a part of his Extended Universe bio on StarWars.com

	16-06-2005 04:29									#33
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Of course, that ****s with the whole idea of the prophecy about Anakin.

	16-06-2005 04:30									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Of course, that ****s with the whole idea of the prophecy about Anakin.

As I said on the other thread. We don't have any proof that Anakin actually WAS the Chosen One. I believe there were some Jedi expressing doubts in ROTS. He was said to be, but there was no conformation of that.

It could easily be said Luke was the Chosen One. Or the Chosen One came later... or never came to pass.

	16-06-2005 04:31									#35
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Occam's razor says it was Anakin.

	16-06-2005 04:33									#36
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What about Luke? He's the one that actually brought Vader back.

	16-06-2005 04:35									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui What about Luke? He's the one that actually brought Vader back.

But not the one who killed the last Sith.

My own pet theory (which since it involves KOTOR and Zahn stuff probably isn't true) is that restoring balance wasn't in killing off the Sith but in getting rid of the fake Sith i.e. fallen Jedi. The real Sith are still out there in the Unknown Regions and they're what Thrawn was scared of.

	16-06-2005 04:37									#38
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quote: But not the one who killed the last Sith.

According to the EU, he did end up killing the Emperor though .

	16-06-2005 04:39									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: But not the one who killed the last Sith. According to the EU, he did end up killing the Emperor though .

quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Of course, that ****s with the whole idea of the prophecy about Anakin.

	16-06-2005 04:44									#40
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The EU came before the 'prophecy' (first in The Phantom Menace). My argument is that the prophecy fits Luke better.

	16-06-2005 04:46									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui The EU came before the 'prophecy' (first in The Phantom Menace). My argument is that the prophecy fits Luke better.

Since the movie plots were all written before any of the EU novels, I believe my interpretation is correct - this is a plot connection that was unwittingly broken by the Dark Empire comics.

	16-06-2005 04:47									#42
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I bet you if Star Wars was real I'd be able to master both sides of the force without any problem

	16-06-2005 04:48									#43
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quote: Since the movie plots were all written before any of the EU novels

Do you really believe Lucas wrote all the movie plots when he wrote the original? I think Lucas just made that up later on. He may have had a general idea of the story, but just a sketch of them, not the plot written out.

	16-06-2005 04:49									#44
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quote: Do you really believe Lucas wrote all the movie plots when he wrote the original?

Yes. That explains why they're crap and screw with the EU. They'd be more likely to fit well with the EU if he'd written them later on.

His entire depiction of the Clone Wars was inconsistent with the Thrawn trilogy.

	16-06-2005 04:53									#45
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Why would he conform to the EU if he written the scripts later? Movies trump books in the heirarchy. He doesn't have to make sure they fit.

	16-06-2005 04:54									#46
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Why not?

edit: re the first question

	16-06-2005 05:00									#47
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Because then he'd have to do extensive fact checking to make sure he didn't step on any toes. That is why in fantasy series, it invariably takes longer to get the later books out because of all the fact checking to make sure you didn't mess anything up.

Easier to say, what I say wins in the heirarchy. The EU fills in any gaps I make, as long as no contridiction.

	16-06-2005 05:02									#48
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Then it's just as likely that he was ignoring the inconsistency of his plot device with the Dark Empire comics.

	16-06-2005 05:09									#49
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Perhaps, but I think Lucas also wanted to create discussion and mystery as to whether Anakin really fulfill's the prophesy. That's why he had Jedi Masters questioning if they were correct about the prophesy.

	16-06-2005 05:10									#50
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And I think he was going for the coolness factor in having the prophecy be correct but in a way none of the Jedi Masters forsaw.

	16-06-2005 05:12									#51
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Well, if Lucas wanted Anakin to fulfill the prophecy by killing all the Sith, then how do you have an Episode 7, 8, and 9 which Lucas said he had as well. Without any Sith, they become much more boring, don't they?

	16-06-2005 05:22									#52
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New Jedi fall on their own. We know the Sith are gone because there are always only two.

	16-06-2005 05:27									#53
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Once again, then how do you have an Ep 7, 8, and 9 without Sith?

The Emperor has to 'reform' for there to be any sequal trilogy. Or else, it wouldn't work. What, they fight Empire Generals?

	16-06-2005 05:31									#54
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Why not? That's what the EU has mostly, except for Dark Empire.

	16-06-2005 05:34									#55
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Yeah, because Force killing animals will translate well on screen, as well as a non Sith villian who strategizes so well he could be a psychohistorian.

And where are all the lightsaber duels to display the effects?

	16-06-2005 05:44									#56
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Force killing animals?

And Thrawn would be AWESOME in a movie.

quote: And where are all the lightsaber duels to display the effects?

C'baoth.

	16-06-2005 06:02									#57
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quote: Force killing animals?

The ysalamiri.

quote: And Thrawn would be AWESOME in a movie.

Even us who have seen the ubervillians would say this was too much. He acts as though he should have Force powers in seeing the future, but really doesn't.

quote: C'baoth.

Oooh.. One Sith.

	16-06-2005 06:15									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Force killing animals? The ysalamiri.

Oh, I thought you meant using the force to kill animals.

quote: Even us who have seen the ubervillians would say this was too much. He acts as though he should have Force powers in seeing the future, but really doesn't.

No... and he even makes mistakes. He's incredibly cool, especially since he's a *good* bad guy.

quote: Oooh.. One Sith.

No, one insane Jedi Master

	16-06-2005 06:38									#59
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In regards to Canon in SW, this post at the SDMB explains how it works (the discussion is how the walkers got on Hoth):

quote: Actually, the way canon (not cannon, btw) works in Star Wars, anything in the game is canon until it is contradicted by something else. Apparently everything is canon in the Star Wars universe (with a handful of specific exceptions). What they have is a hierarchy-type structure which says what trumps what when there are contradictions. The highest level is the movies. They trump everything. The authorized novels come next. When they contradict the movies the movies take precedence, but otherwise they trump everything except the movies. And so on... Games have some special rules. Game scenarios are considered canon (and this includes all games; computer, RPG and even SWG) but the outcome of the scenarios are not. So, unless something specifically says otherwise elsewhere further up the hierarchy, the scenario as described would be canon. (Even if a movie or novel showed another method of deploying AT-ATs, it still wouldn't contradict the game unless it specifically said that the method used was the only one ever employed or that "drop ships" were never used anywhere.) Yeah, canonosity in Star Wars can be fun...

	16-06-2005 06:58									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker But not the one who killed the last Sith. My own pet theory (which since it involves KOTOR and Zahn stuff probably isn't true) is that restoring balance wasn't in killing off the Sith but in getting rid of the fake Sith i.e. fallen Jedi. The real Sith are still out there in the Unknown Regions and they're what Thrawn was scared of.

Maybe restoring balance to the force really involved killing off most of the Jedi, who because they had learned to live a very long time were hogging too many midi-chlorians ( who incidently are also essential to keeping your pool clean ) and had become stagnant. Remember that Lucas was a student of myths and religions. If the force was modeled after "Yin and Yang", then you can't have a whole lot of good without having a whole lot of evil. By releasing the midi-chlorians being monopolized by the Jedi their power could be dispersed elsewhere in the galaxy for whatever ends. Perhaps people were getting sick from Pseudomonas or Staphylococcus in poorly sanitized pools and hot tubs.